03-21-2004, 02:24 AM
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I have followed the guide of vmesquita in order to calculate the sample. my dates are the following:
1st movie - 210.226frames 176m
2nd movie - 146.599frames 98m
then:
audio 1 - (192kbps) - 247,5 Mb
audio 2 - (192Kbps) - 137,8 Mb
audio total = 385,3 Mb
therefore:
4482-200(overmux)-386(audio) = 3896 Mb
356825(total frames)/274/15=86.8187
3896/86.8187=44.87 mb (45952Kb)
therefore I have used:
for 1st movie sample: 32892
2nd movie - sample: 12697
12697+32892 = 45589 < 45952
after encoder I have got for
1st. movie (only mpv): 3,136,910 Kb (3063.4 Mb)
2nd. movie (only mpv): 1,225,433 Kb (1196.7 Mb)
therefore:
1196.7+3063.4 (video)+
385,3 (audio)+
200 (overmux) = 4845,4 Mb > > > 4482 Mb
if I have not made errors, the proposed system does not work!
How ever I got a mistaken prediction?
by[/b]
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Someday, 12:01 PM
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03-21-2004, 03:46 PM
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Someone has never used this method?
thanks
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03-21-2004, 06:58 PM
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hy zagor!
please, i have some doubts, answer me:
if:
1st movie - 210.226frames 176m
2nd movie - 146.599frames 98m
then you wrote:
"therefore I have used:
for 1st movie sample: 12697
2nd movie - sample: 32892 "
and in the final:
" after encoder I have got for
1st. movie (only mpv): 1,225,433 Kb
2nd. movie (only mpv): 3,136,910 Kb"
how the final size of the 1st movie have less size than 2nd movie?
maybe the reason is that you got
"for 1st movie sample: 12697"
and
"2nd movie - sample: 32892 "
that is strange too because the 1st movie have more size than the 2nd movie
but in the final, the 2nd movie have more size than the 1st movie!
something is wrong in your prediction, don't?
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03-22-2004, 03:44 AM
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ok, jorel
i have edited my previous post.
I had invert simply the two values.
thanks
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03-22-2004, 05:51 AM
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right zagor.
i follow your steps and the vmesquita guide
and can't find anything wrong now
only the final sizes of course!
 using the values that you found after prediction !
i'm still think that have something strange, take a look:
see the proportional frames from 1st movie and the 2nd movie...,
1st movie - 210.226frames 176m
2nd movie - 146.599frames 98m
the 1st have ~double size/time of the 2nd but
the final size of the 1st is too big comparing with the final size of the 2nd !
means...more than double size of the 2nd.
1st. movie (only mpv): 3,136,910 Kb (3063.4 Mb)
2nd. movie (only mpv): 1,225,433 Kb (1196.7 Mb)
1st movie have 1839,7 MB more than 2nd movie.
the proportion, comparing with the sources is lost!
better is wait for vmesquita, he will help us!
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03-22-2004, 06:21 AM
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FYI : did you see that Vmesquita acutally did a calc that give aotumatically the wanted sample size according to parameters of the video you plan to encode ?
Quote:
if I have not made errors, the proposed system does not work!
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No one never said that the predcition was 100% accurate ! That's the same as TMPGENC and CQMatic : the only way to be sure at 100% of the predicted value is to... take a sample taht is the length of the movie !
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03-22-2004, 06:52 AM
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I think that there is an error in the formula.
4482-200(overmux)-386(audio) = 3896 Mb
356825(total frames)/274/15=86.8187 (why?)
3896/86.8187=44.87 mb (45952Kb)
I think that it's need to proceed in this way:
4482-200(overmux)-386(audio) = 3896 Mb
3896/100=38.96 mb
 because when use sampler (lenghth=15) in the script, I have the relative sampling to 1/100 of frames totals of the movie!!!
it's all right?
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03-22-2004, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zagor
 because when use sampler (lenghth=15) in the script, I have the relative sampling to 1/100 of frames totals of the movie!!!
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Not at all : sampler takes one sample per minute of the movie and each sample is "length" frame long.
That is why in you case (274 minutes and length = 15) you have the formula : 356825(total frames)/274/15
If you thought that sampler gives you exactly 1/100 of the total frame number it's probably because 176/25*15 = 105.6 (~100)
In other words, that is just a coincidence.
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03-22-2004, 08:20 AM
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I have dowloaded the calc file, and as I said before:
Desired Sample Size is 38.8744 Mb
I can't post the image but it's so!
....and this is not a coincidence!!!
[/quote]
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03-22-2004, 09:01 AM
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Ok, I found where your problem is :
Quote:
1st movie - 210.226frames 176m
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Assuming your sources are PAL, so 25 frame per seconds :
176 min * 60 * 25 = 264000 (and not 210266)
and
210266 / 60/25 = 140 min (and not 176)
Your error is there !
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03-22-2004, 11:03 AM
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right Phil!...
the guide need corrections or i loose something?!?!?
i can't find it there for pal or ntsc sources.
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03-22-2004, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jorel
Let's say you have 500000 frames, 353 minutes (5h53m), you would do: (500000/353/GOP). Put this number on the calc's memory. "
the guide need corrections or i loose something?!?!?

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You means because 500000 frames can't give 353 minutes whatever the framerate you use (23.976, 24, 25 or even 29.970) ? You are right.
But this is an EXAMPLE ! That is not a matter if an exemple isn't realist. The goal is to make understand the IDEA. And the idea is that you have to divide the number or frames by the number of minutes and then by the length of the GOP.
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03-22-2004, 11:17 AM
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i edited my last post cos was "too big" but you read before i edit.
i got the "idea" Phil, very clear!
Phil wrote:
"And the idea is that you have to divide the number or frames by the number of minutes and then by the length of the GOP."
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03-22-2004, 04:02 PM
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I have found the error!
about to the first movie, the correct values are:
frames: 258098
Time: 2.52.03 (172.01m)
258098/172,01/60 = 25fps.
again:
404.697/(172.01+97.73)/15 = 100,02
now I want to codify the first one in ac3 to 320 and the second in sourround2 to 192.
therefore I will have:
172.01x2400 = 403,15 Mb
97,73 x1440 = 137,43 Mb
total audio: 540,58 Mb
at the end:
4482-200-540.48 = 3741.42/100.02=37,4067 Mb =
sample = 38.304 kb
calculate with vmesquita's Calc is:
37,4142 Mb!
yuuuuuuu
when I will have encoded I will make you to know the filesize.
byebye
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03-22-2004, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zagor
I have found the error! 
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YOU found 
Read my post at 3:01 pm
Quote:
sample = 38.304 kb 
calculate with vmesquita's Calc is:
37,4142 Mb!
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Actually I foudn also diff in VMesquita calc when you set the audio bitrate in the toggle, oy when you put manually the audio size in MB. I don't know why there as such diff.
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03-22-2004, 05:35 PM
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Oops, I came too late... I am glad you were able to figure out.  Great!
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03-22-2004, 05:51 PM
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Vmesquita, as you are there  can you :
1/ tell me why when I put for instance "320" in audio bitrate, the sample size is 37 MB (is just an example) and if I put insteed of the bitrate the actual size of the audio file that I have on my disc, the sample size is 36.8 MB ?
-> it seems that your calc for audio file size according to the bitrate is wrong. May be a matter of convertion between Bytes and MB ?
2/ In you calc you forgot 384 as audio bitrate ! You have 320 and 448 but nothign beteween the two  . Can you change that please ?
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03-23-2004, 03:50 AM
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it is a po difficult to explain, but I will try it.
I had read yours post, only that I did not succeed to understand why Virtualdub had given those values to me:
1st movie - 210.226frames 176m
Then I have remembered to me that when I have used dvd2avi for
the first time, he seems me to have activated the option "Force Film" as written on the guide of vmesquita.
After I have understood that it did not have to activate such option, but I already had annotated those values for the first film.
For which the film he came codified in 20fps.
in fact 210226/176/60 = 20fps.
Therefore when I have written "I have found the error" I mean :
to have found from where the values of frame exited and Time of the first film.
@Dialhot. Yes, you have found the error!  thanks. You have much "intuito" (I do not know it like translate)
Quote:
2/ In you calc you forgot 384 as audio bitrate ! You have 320 and 448 but nothign beteween the two . Can you change that please ?
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In mine version (1.1) i have 384 as audio bitrate! I don't have 320 kbps!
byebye
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03-23-2004, 05:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zagor
After I have understood that it did not have to activate such option, but I already had annotated those values for the first film.
For which the film he came codified in 20fps.
in fact 210226/176/60 = 20fps.
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Okay 
The option "force film" is related to NTSC video only. It's purpose is to "convert" 29.70 fps video into 23.976. If you apply this on a regular PAL video (25 fps) you obtain a 20 fps video.
Quote:
In mine version (1.1) i have 384 as audio bitrate! I don't have 320 kbps!
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Ugh... you are probably right. I know for sure that a value is missing, but I don't have the tool at my office. Perhaps is 320 the missing value.
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