Quantcast How to use KVCD Templates Together with FitCD and TMPGEnc? - digitalFAQ.com Forums [Archives]
  #1  
08-26-2002, 05:55 AM
StevetheSwede StevetheSwede is offline
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First of all, Kwag -my hero!

I have been messing with SVCD settings and TMPG for ever it feels like, and have never really succeeded. And using the forum at the doom9 site is just answering for sarcastic comments from professional programmers.... This site is instead truly focused at helping people, great!

I have now been using the various templates directly into TMPGEnc and except for some padding problems I am at least making progress. However, when I read this forum I have understood that the fitCD program is the key to get control over the aspect ratio and resizing.

Still (maybe I am stupid) I can not manage to figure it out. What is the general approach here? Let me start by describing what I normally do (or try to do)...

I usually want to convert a DivX AVIfile and start by using VirtualDub to extract the sound into wav-format. I then load the wav-file and the AVI-file into TMPGEnc and use one of your templates and create a big mpg-file. After cutting it in TMPG I use VCDEasy to create one or two bin/que-files, which I mount to a virtual CD using Daemon-tools, and then use a direct copy option in any standard CD-burning program.

Where to I fit fitCD into this process? Should I load my AVI-file into fitCD and generate something which I then put into TMPG together with your template? Or how do I use the proposed max/mean/min-bitrates since your templates use the constant quality encoding option where I cannot (can I) explicitely control the mean bitrate?

And for the resizing/aspect ratio part I am lost. Usually my AVI file is in 16:9 format but the size is non-standard. I am using a 16:9 TV that can handle both PAL and NTSC - so how do I go about that? I have been searching a lot in the forum and the FAQ but not find what I need. Is there any guide that covers this? what is the difference between widescreen and fullscreen? Are they not both 16:9?

Thanks in advance, and again - I think your templates and this webpage are the two items that will make me a successful VCD/SVCD-burner

BTW, what template would you recommend if I wanna fit a 120min movie into 2 CDs? Thinking about the DivX-source...

Thanks a lot
Steve
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  #2  
08-26-2002, 06:08 AM
kwag kwag is offline
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Hey thanks Steve ,
Your steps are rignt, but instead of opening the avi directly with TMPEG, you open a .avs script that FitCD creates. After you separate your audio and video, you run FitCD and open the avi video stream. Select your destination ( VCD, 1/2 DVD, XVCD, etc ) and save this script. This is the file you open with TMPEG as video source. And open your audio as you did before.
As to difference between widescreen and full screen, look at this: http://www.widescreen.org
And to fit 120 minutes in two CD's, with the crazy DivX resolutions, I suggest the 352x480 PLUS template

Have fun!,
-kwag
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08-26-2002, 06:47 AM
StevetheSwede StevetheSwede is offline
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Kwag - amazing, answer within an hour!

I went to the widescreen site and read that widescreen is another word for letterbox (hate letterbox!!!).

So I guess that means that everything is fullscreen for me!!

For the settings in FitCD, which should I use with your proposed template? Does it differ between PAL and NTCS? And what about the anomorphic flags? I guess these questions belong in the FitCD forum but since I started it here...

Steve
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08-26-2002, 07:37 AM
StevetheSwede StevetheSwede is offline
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Sorry for being so eager - but I feel I am coming close here

In fitCD I can enter the number of CDs I plan to use etc. and it proposes some bitrates. Are they taken into account by TMPG when I use the generated script or does TMPG use the QC stuff in the KWAG template?

Should I manually change it to VBR and insert the proposed bitrates?

/Steve again
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08-26-2002, 10:26 AM
StevetheSwede StevetheSwede is offline
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After playing a while I have come to the following procedure. Remember that my goal is to convert a DivX (with gooood quality) into something I can run on my DVD-player. I want to get as good quality as possible on 2 CDs (i.e. wanna fill them up). This is what I do:

1) Extract the audio to wav using virtual dub.

2) Load the .avi into fitCD and insert 2CDs as output size - but adding some margin (a couple of minutes to the total time or similar). Write down the proposed mean/max/min bitrates.

3) For source size use 1:1 monitor with PAL checked (if PAL) and anomorphic unchecked, accurate cropping, 1 block TV overscan and output as 704*576 (PAL) or 704*480 (NTSC), XVCD both and anomorphic checked. Save script

4) and load into TMPG together with wav-file. Change the video settings to 2-pass VBR MPG-1 with bitrates as suggested by fitCD. Encode!

5) Cut into two files with TMPG (have not gotten BBMPEG to work - it will always cause padding for some reason). Now I can only cut based on time (or frames) and not size and therefore some margin in the mapping bitrate to CDsize is needed in step 2.

6) Create bin/que files with VCDEasy (non-standard VCD) and mount them with Daemon-tools

7) Burn with any program. Done!!

Steve
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08-26-2002, 02:41 PM
StevetheSwede StevetheSwede is offline
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Aaaarghhh!! I stand corrected!

Still think that that approach would work, but on my lousy machine (PIII 500) it claims to take some 60 hours - even if I go back to constant bitrate!

Why is this - frommy previous attempts with SVCD (not KWAGs) I have gotten bad quality but the film I am trying (again and again - Monsters Inc) would take some 10-15 hours.

Is it the resizing according to the fitCD script or what?

Could someone pls help me figure this one out? Anyone with similar experience? Any help (not involving a new machine)? I can live with even 15-20 hours but 60... no!

Thanks in advance
Steve
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08-27-2002, 01:11 AM
StevetheSwede StevetheSwede is offline
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Feels like I am talking to myself here, but my thinking is that by reporting my progress (?) and problems I might 1) get some help from you kings and 2) help others...

Status now is that I went back to the 1/2DVD output suggested by KWAG - and the process is suddenly a lot faster. I guess that resizing upwards takes more time then the opposite.

My current issue is regarding size - as I wrote earlier I currently change the encoding to 2-pass VBR and use the bitrates suggested by fitCD to make sure to not waste CD capacity.

However this also takes time of course. My understanding is that the only mapping between the CQ and the file size is experience, correct? Using the KVCD352*576(PAL) and KVCD352*480(NTSC) templates and fullscreen in and output - what is the expected film length per 80 minute CD? That is with the default CQ settings in those templates? Kwag the man?

Steve
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08-27-2002, 10:23 AM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StevetheSwede
Using the KVCD352*576(PAL) and KVCD352*480(NTSC) templates and fullscreen in and output - what is the expected film length per 80 minute CD? That is with the default CQ settings in those templates? Kwag the man?

Steve
For the PLUS( FS=Full Screen ):
352x240(28 ~120 X .75 = ~90 FS
352x480(576) ~90 X .75 = ~67.5 FS
704x480(576) ~60 X .75 = ~45 FS

-kwag
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  #9  
08-27-2002, 09:20 PM
reman reman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwag
instead of opening the avi directly with TMPEG, you open a .avs script that FitCD creates.
I got decompression errors when I tried that. Any ideas
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reman
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  #10  
08-27-2002, 10:27 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reman
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwag
instead of opening the avi directly with TMPEG, you open a .avs script that FitCD creates.
I got decompression errors when I tried that. Any ideas
What's your source reman?

-kwag
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  #11  
08-28-2002, 03:38 AM
StevetheSwede StevetheSwede is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwag
Quote:
Originally Posted by StevetheSwede
Using the KVCD352*576(PAL) and KVCD352*480(NTSC) templates and fullscreen in and output - what is the expected film length per 80 minute CD? That is with the default CQ settings in those templates? Kwag the man?

Steve
For the PLUS( FS=Full Screen ):
352x240(28 ~120 X .75 = ~90 FS
352x480(576) ~90 X .75 = ~67.5 FS
704x480(576) ~60 X .75 = ~45 FS

-kwag
Great, thanks!

Continuing this thought - assuming that with the default template setting for 352x480(576) one 80CD can hold at least 60 minutes...

If I have a movie that is say 90 minutes and hence wishes to put some 45 minutes on one 80CD - how much can I increase the CQ value? Is it possible to estimate that...? CQ increase per minute/CD reduction kind of..?

Thanks
Steve
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  #12  
08-28-2002, 07:07 AM
reman reman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwag
What's your source reman?
It is a DivX MPEG4 Fast Motion, 24 fps, 352x272.

Error: Error Decompressing Video Frame, Error -100.

Upon further investigation... I ran it in VDub and there where 2 bad video frames at 2 areas. How do I cut (ignore) those from the framserving
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reman
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  #13  
08-28-2002, 07:10 AM
kwag kwag is offline
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@reman,
There a DivX fixer program somewhere.
Try www.digital-digest.com
I think you can get it there.

-kwag
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  #14  
08-28-2002, 07:12 AM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StevetheSwede
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwag
Quote:
Originally Posted by StevetheSwede
Using the KVCD352*576(PAL) and KVCD352*480(NTSC) templates and fullscreen in and output - what is the expected film length per 80 minute CD? That is with the default CQ settings in those templates? Kwag the man?

Steve
For the PLUS( FS=Full Screen ):
352x240(28 ~120 X .75 = ~90 FS
352x480(576) ~90 X .75 = ~67.5 FS
704x480(576) ~60 X .75 = ~45 FS

-kwag
Great, thanks!

Continuing this thought - assuming that with the default template setting for 352x480(576) one 80CD can hold at least 60 minutes...

If I have a movie that is say 90 minutes and hence wishes to put some 45 minutes on one 80CD - how much can I increase the CQ value? Is it possible to estimate that...? CQ increase per minute/CD reduction kind of..?

Thanks
Steve
Hi Steve,
Try the kvcdx3, and don't worry about the CQ value
You can't get better results, as the value is already set to give the highest quality. Increasing the CQ value above just makes larger file sizes.

-kwag
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  #15  
08-28-2002, 10:09 AM
StevetheSwede StevetheSwede is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwag

Hi Steve,
Try the kvcdx3, and don't worry about the CQ value
You can't get better results, as the value is already set to give the highest quality. Increasing the CQ value above just makes larger file sizes.

-kwag
Thanks again kwag!

Will try by firstly downloading the testclips to see if my DVD-player likes them... Do I author the MPG1 as VCD and MPG2 as SVCD or?

And when I later try to use the template when encoding, should I use nonstandard VCD, SVCD or what as system information? Or only MPG1 or MPG2..?

I don't really understand the CQ part - but hey, you have been right so far

Steve
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  #16  
08-28-2002, 10:13 AM
kwag kwag is offline
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Burn the MPEG-1 as non-standard VCD, and the MPEG-2 as non-standard SVCD.

-kwag
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