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  #1  
05-22-2023, 10:45 AM
Gary34 Gary34 is offline
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Idk if this really needs to be a discussion on here. Feel free to delete it if you want but this guy is so bad about misleading people and acting like some kind of expert. I made bad hard wear choices before because I was new and it was the blind leading the blind. Premier crashed constantly. Intensity shuttle was a waste gonna recapture all that later. Idk maybe those people are best off just ignoring. Some ppl are just gonna think what they want but itís be nice if they wouldnít act like experts and tell everyone else to do that. https://youtu.be/e2Qt0rQVRhc

-- merged --

You know I guess it was kinda my fault for not researching those choices better. Thereís always gonna be someone like that. Probably better off ignoring them. Unless they come to the site with incorrect information.
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  #2  
05-22-2023, 11:37 AM
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TechTVusa is just another low-knowledge misinformation peddler. I'll be glad to obliterate his ridiculous BS when time permits.

Quick hint: his "proof" video is crap. DV chroma issues are most stark in reds, and he is showing a noisy green/blue pond clip

I left a comment on that video:
Quote:
DV was a "hack" (compression) to allow Pentium III computers (1990s tech!) to not crash from too much data inflow. Better lossless SDI setups required SCSI RAID at the time, using turnkey editing rigs. We had advanced greatly by the 2000s, when all of the best gear for videotape capture was manufactured.

NTSC DV 4:1:1 literally throws away 50% of color data available in VHS tapes, which has a digital equivalent to 4:2:2. The :1:1 and :2:2 refers to the chroma bandwidth ratio. :2 is 50%, and :1 is 25%, as compared to the luma (the mostly-B&W part of the signal where detail is retained). So, again, literally half.

PAL is less lossy, at 4:2:0 (a quasi 4:2:2, sort of, don't want to over-explain to newbies here), comparable to DVD-Video.

Now, there are some arguments that get made, in relation to VHS color-under loss, and the cop-out "good enough". You can sometimes see anecdotal "evidence" where the loss is acceptable/tolerable. But not really. When you start viewing on large modern HDTVs, editing, restoring, upscaling to HD, the mess is obvious even to half-blind grandmas. "Why does he have a sunburn?"

FYI, the color damage is most obvious in reds. So skin tones, etc. A sample clip of a creek is not proof of anything, especially in this conversation where blues are less damaged by the 4:1:1.

Canopus ADVC-110 does not have a TBC, period. There are no chips inside with that function.

No, I don't sell crappy cheap Dazzle dongles.
Yes, I refurb and sell hardware to the video capture community, because it's getting rare, because it's falling into disrepair. These are the tools we need.

You're mixing up so much information, so many concepts here, that it's clear you're a "Google expert", and not somebody that has worked in the video field for decades. You need to Google some more, you've failed your "Google exam" here, and are not yet ready to get your "Google degree".

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  #3  
05-22-2023, 12:20 PM
Gary34 Gary34 is offline
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I am glad that he is at least mentioning this site now. Maybe some people well look at this site and see some facts and make some good decisions and not use one of those crappy shuttles and deal with adobe crashes constantly and audio sync problems and have no idea why, then finally find this site and sell there old hardware and get new recommended hardware thatís actually meant for sd video like I did. That guy uses no frame TBC as far as Iíve seem. He just uses a line TBC in his vcr. Then talks about audio sync issues in some of the cards. Then he talks about videos he did for a client. If anyone is thinking about following his advice read through the guide on this page save yourself some time and get a lot better quality videos.
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  #4  
05-22-2023, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary34 View Post
I am glad that he is at least mentioning this site now..
The SOB is backpedding now, and deleting my comments. POS a-hole.

For posterity, since not yet deleted there:
Quote:
The ADVC-55 and 110 are essentially identical, same for the 50 and 100. Only the 300 should be avoided, the filters caused more damage than anything else. For PAL, the loss is only 4:2:0, which is far more tolerable. It doesn't change color tint like NTSC. There are reports of Canopus boxes not working well with new M1/M2 chips, but I've not yet confirmed on my M2 Pro.

The HS950 makes the ES15 mostly redundant, as both are essentially just line TBC. The ES15 will add a basic frame sync (not frame TBC).

The problem comes when you mention restoring video. You need to avoid all compression. No DV allowed there. You will run into many limitations to restore, by not having lossless files to process. Also note that DVD recorders add noises/artifacts, and changes the luma gain. So again, to truly restore, you need to start with as raw of a signal as possible. Not one that was altered and compressed.

For cables, don't believe Monster hype. You don't need gold, and fat headers can damage gear.

For Mac, I prefer FCP. I've been using FCP since 2002. It's different than Adobe, but not in a bad way. You can probably figure it out quickly if you're familiar with any other NLE.

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  #5  
05-22-2023, 02:04 PM
Gary34 Gary34 is offline
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It does me no good to tell people not to listen to to that guy because I still need some hard wear and it could make more competition for that gear but at the same time I got really thrown off track by this guy and itís better for people to at least have factual information. Itís annoying because he acts like he knows it all but he doesnít really know and the fact that I fell for his BS. Ow well Iím gonna make it to where YouTube stops recommending me that guys videos. That stuff is really misleading to new people.
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  #6  
05-22-2023, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary34 View Post
It does me no good to tell people not to listen to to that guy because I still need some hard wear and it could make more competition for that gear but at the same time I got really thrown off track by this guy and itís better for people to at least have factual information. Itís annoying because he acts like he knows it all but he doesnít really know and the fact that I fell for his BS. Ow well Iím gonna make it to where YouTube stops recommending me that guys videos. That stuff is really misleading to new people.
Youtube is full of people that go to a random store, random buy something, and then defend their purchase as the best item ever.
- Very often, it's not best.
- Too often, it's actually the worst, praised simply due to cheap costs.

Many Youtubers exist solely to have their egos stroked, not help others. They need to be reassured (coo'd like a baby) that they made the right purchase, and ignore/delete any dissenting comments. Many more go bonkers when confronted with facts, and turn into raving lunatics that spout myth and conspiracy.

And sadly, it's not just video, but everything.

I'm not here to convince dullards that they cannot buy the world for $1. I'm here to share helpful info, facts, seasoned experience (both hobby and pro), to guide others to successful (AND QUALITY!) outcomes. Your average Youtuber only cares about himself or herself, and loves to stand in front of the camera. Some are successful at it, but most are wanna-be TV hosts. Always remember this. Camera whores that know less than you do -- that's most of Youtube. Not all, of course.

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  #7  
05-22-2023, 02:24 PM
Gary34 Gary34 is offline
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Okay Point taken.
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  #8  
05-22-2023, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary34 View Post
Okay Point taken.
Do you feel like Neo in the Matrix?
For too long, you were subjected to BS. But now you see the capture world as it actually exists!

Sadly, some prefer to stay in the Matrix.

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  #9  
05-22-2023, 02:49 PM
Gary34 Gary34 is offline
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Lol no I understand what youíre saying. You donít want to waste your time trying to help people that donít want to help themselves and are not willing to do what it takes to help themselves. You know itís funny that you bring up the Matrix. My niece is named Trinity after that movie and Iíve always been a really big fan of that movie. Didnít care for the last one but I know there was a lot of symbolism there and I see what they were going for anyways back to the subject. Yeah it kinda seems like that because I spent a really long time listening to goofballs. Thatís a good comparison.

Last edited by Gary34; 05-22-2023 at 03:16 PM.
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  #10  
05-22-2023, 06:14 PM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
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That was "babygdav" (sometimes referred to as "babydav" with 'g' missing) a former member at Videohelp, he was arguing with everyone at the forum about how great DV is for capturing and linking videos in his posts as proof, We quickly found out that they were his own videos and has been reported and banned for his agressive behavior.

I posted a comment there, hopefully i'll stick:
Quote:
It's a fact that NTSC DV has only half the horizontal chroma resolution, and PAL has half the vertical chroma resolution (every other field), Just because it's hard to see doesn't mean that you have to bottleneck your captures, Analog video by nature has a very low chroma resolution horizontally (barely the equivalent of 40 samples), the last thing you would do to it is halve it further horizontally in case of NTSC, or drop each field chroma entirely and slap one field chroma for both fields in case of PAL when passing it through a DV device. So yes there is a chroma loss there, whether the average Joe sees it or not that's entirely a different subject, You can't be the judge however for everyone and say oh it's fine I don't see it thefore no one sees it, No that's wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/@Capturing-Memories/videos

Last edited by lordsmurf; 05-26-2023 at 08:24 PM. Reason: Fixed VH username. -LS
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  #11  
05-22-2023, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Gary34 View Post
My niece is named Trinity after that movie
Nice.

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  #12  
05-22-2023, 07:30 PM
Gary34 Gary34 is offline
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What an odd individual. He pushes his methods to people that have the knowledge to judge him aggressively to the point that they feel the need to ban him then he goes to a place where he can reach a ton of uneducated people on that topic. Then seems to really want the attention of LS debating him on some stuff that really is a waste of time debate. Strange guy.
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  #13  
05-22-2023, 07:59 PM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
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Some people worship the look and easiness of devices, they don't care of the technical details behind it.
I personally had captured all my family tapes using the Edirol VMC-1, while the overall quality was not that bad I felt like I got stuck with those DV files, anything you do to them, further degrades them, especially when I really needed to de-interlace them and encode them to h.264 or Youtube for sharing with the family in private links. So had to start the project all over again 7 years later and go lossless AVI. So I know what the difference was before processing and I can imagine how it will look like after processing.

https://www.youtube.com/@Capturing-Memories/videos
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  #14  
05-22-2023, 08:06 PM
Gary34 Gary34 is offline
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That’s cool you got them done right later on.
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  #15  
05-22-2023, 08:25 PM
dpalomaki dpalomaki is offline
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Quote:
Analog video by nature has a very low chroma resolution horizontally (barely the equivalent of 40 samples), the last thing you would do to it is halve it further horizontally in case of NTSC,
This implies that DV takes only 20 samples per scan line. Actually the 4:1:1 translates to 180 samples per horizontal scan line, and a scan of every line. (720 samples of the B&W image per line.)

IMO, with respect to the color-under consumer SD video formats the problem is not the sample rate but the lossy compression, implementations of that compression, and data rate limitations, especially with the noise typical of home recordings which combine to make DV less than optimum for video enhancement and restoration purposes.
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  #16  
05-22-2023, 09:38 PM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
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Read the post again, It says analog video, DV is a digital format not analog. I was talking about passing analog video via a DV device, you shortened my comment and took it out of context.

https://www.youtube.com/@Capturing-Memories/videos

Last edited by lordsmurf; 05-22-2023 at 10:01 PM. Reason: Clarify. -LS
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  #17  
05-22-2023, 10:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dpalomaki View Post
IMO, with respect to the color-under consumer SD video formats the problem is not the sample rate but the lossy compression, implementations of that compression, and data rate limitations, especially with the noise typical of home recordings which combine to make DV less than optimum for video enhancement and restoration purposes.
Yep.

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  #18  
05-22-2023, 10:14 PM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
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Yes, luma suffers too under DV but it is less damaged than chroma, Some consumer tapes look almost like hand painting or animation in terms of color, I take DV luma anytime but I can't stand DV chroma, looks horrible. The trick with DV capturing is that the better the quality of the original tape the less noticeable the difference is compared to lossless. At least we all agree that DV is not ideal for proper archiving.

https://www.youtube.com/@Capturing-Memories/videos
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  #19  
05-22-2023, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by latreche34 View Post
Yes, luma suffers too under DV but it is less damaged than chroma, Some consumer tapes look almost like hand painting or animation in terms of color, I take DV luma anytime but I can't stand DV chroma, looks horrible. The trick with DV capturing is that the better the quality of the original tape the less noticeable the difference is compared to lossless. At least we all agree that DV is not ideal for proper archiving.
The main sin is completely obliterating colors of smaller objects. You end up with excessive gray splotch areas, where not enough color saturation existed.

Tints changes, and you get lots of color artifacts (especially saturated red or green).

When you further toss out data, ie deinterlacing, it starts to look like MPEG-1 VCD.

What I find astonishingly stupid is that we're having to discuss late 90s tech in 2023, and explain to people that something from about 30 years ago is not "the best". It's about as idiotic as explaining that "no, records are not better than __" (insert current format here). Different, often worse, not really better. What's next? "Phone booths are better than cell phones!" At some point, "babygdav" or TechTVusa, or whatever he wants to call himself, is just the video capture equivalent of a flat earther. Just another raving lunatic seeking lemming followers.

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  #20  
05-22-2023, 11:09 PM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
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He doesn't even know how to use "Reply" in the comment section, Now I'm trying to work thru his stuborness and show him how to propery use the reply feature, He's been asking me questions quoting my name manually and he said he wasn't asking me, he was asking someone else.

https://www.youtube.com/@Capturing-Memories/videos
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