#1  
01-07-2017, 03:11 PM
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deter deter is offline
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...
will take you on any day VHS vs VHS, and you will be shredded.
...
Let see what you have
...
will do 10 videos of all the same material uploaded to YouTube and let the viewers decide. I pick 5 tapes you pick 5 tapes. I will create the youtube account, we can do 20 minute videos of each full restoration audio & video
...
you will be destroyed........

Removed some comments. -LS


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  #2  
01-07-2017, 07:39 PM
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For onlookers, forum members SANLYN and DETER have had some disagreements on capture, conversion and restoration, in the past month. Deter wants to throw down a gauntlet, and challenge sanlyn to a restoration-off.

I'm amused. I'm all for it.

And I'll join in.

Who else wants in?

I'd suggest rules are simple:
- 1280x480 side-by-side (assuming 4x3 content) output to compare results
- 640x480 overlay before/after, your choice of top/bottom vs. left/right

Any past, current or future project is game.

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  #3  
01-07-2017, 08:46 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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How do you get 1280x480 content out of VHS?
How to ensure the VHS sources are in similar condition.
YouTube is not practical. Video has to be pre-processed to mount on YouTube.

The argument here is VHS encoded to lossy codecs -vs- VHS captured to lossless media. It has nothing to do with restoring YouTube videos. This would be unfair to deter, who doesn't know anything about successful lossless capture.
  #4  
01-07-2017, 10:22 PM
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- 640x480 side-by-side = 1280x480
- Either NTSC or PAL; it's resized to 4x3 SAR.
- Youtube sucks. The forum has 100mb attachments. Encode to high bitrate MP4, attach a clip.
- Post the before/after; condition will be obvious.

Deter can restore as he sees fit. Don't worry about him.

I'm
(a) wanting you to get this out of your system once and for all
(b) always interested in discovering new things, as I don't know everything. A lot ... not everything. And that applies only to certain niches within video, such as VHS restoration, not others like HD colorspace color correcting (to give but one example of something where I'm clueless).

I routinely keep samples of good restoration jobs, but rarely post them. Now may be a good time.

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  #5  
01-07-2017, 10:45 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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I believe deter is confused. The debate in he original thread is not about restoration. It's about capture.
I'm stated that MPEG2 was not designed as a restoration medium, that it is a final delivery format, and deter gets a hair up his wungee and starts raving about restoration.
  #6  
01-07-2017, 10:55 PM
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Deter or not, challenge or not, I'm still interested in seeing more difficult restoration projects discussed and shown off here.

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  #7  
01-07-2017, 11:17 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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I dunno, we get plenty of painfully eye-straining captures around here. One requirement should be, it would seem, is that the source should lie somewhere within the range of possibility. Lately there has simply been a lot of visual debris posted that has no hope of repair. VHS itself has so many defects, even with a good player, that lossy capture just doesn't seem to be a viable approach, unless you've become so desensitized to noise and distortion that you think such captures look "great" and don't need cleanup.

I have plenty of examples of typically ugly/noisy/defective "average" home-made lossless VHS captures that required therapy. That sort of thing would make sense, but what do you compare it to? Two people might handle the same capture differently, even getting the same results. Even at that it would take a few days on my end to get up before/after samples, and they would all be lossless source. I could even make an HD-to-SD windowboxed recording on my DVD recorder and get that windowbox repaired, which I believe is where another poster first got a case of hairballs and posted irrelevant samples having nothing to do with the subject. So other than showing-off rather than teaching someone how to handle a poor capture or how to make better ones, it would make sense only if sources were alike in comparison, to get an idea of different ways of handling the same problem. We already have one thread along those lines. But two different sources, two different capture methods....what would be the sense of that?
  #8  
01-07-2017, 11:19 PM
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Lord Smurf this is for the belt not the crown.

You need to go head to head with the Master Script writer Jagabo.

This is a duel, I send Sanyln 5 tapes he sends me 5 tapes. Or we work together an not fight anymore.

The owner of the tape picks the segments, I was saying 20 minutes, upload them to YouTube and let the viewer decide.

It has nothing to do with lossless capture, it has to do what looks better to the eye. YouTube is perfect for this, we are not going to rent out a movie theatre and play VHS tapes.

You have your methods, my method is to create a seamless recordings with little to no picture damage caused by VHS tape errors. It is not a perfect method but it works.

VHS only has 240 lines it is so outdated, it sucks that all of us need to do so much work to improve them.

So the 5 tapes you are getting from me, you have to rebuild the recording cause of all the damage, than since you don't do this work you will lose on my tape selections. It will take you forever and a day to fix and you will just surrender on those recordings. Your five tape no idea, but the way you work and the way scripting works you apply it to all. Were I am breaking down the parts and fixing the bad segments.

Once the video has little to no tape errors, than I am happy with the recording. You have to train your eye for this, it similar to your eye but different. Looking for any kind of irregular change in the video. Good example is 4 field bump, were the picture jumps. So you need to go in take the frames that are off and shift them to match the height and width of the other frames. The Betamax complete white frame is a great example of this. Do you keep them in the video or do you pull them out. In my opinion having those white damaged frames effects the playback.

Last edited by deter; 01-07-2017 at 11:34 PM.
  #9  
01-07-2017, 11:23 PM
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@deter
Yeah, I'm not mailing tapes.
I want to invest time and funds into other things -- this site, my own hobbies, work, etc.

@sanlyn
Youtube is the common "help me restore this please" request lately. Most of beyond hope.
Example: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/news...html#post47119
Nothing much can be done for that lousy source.
I'd like to see less of that, and more tape-based problems. We have some, but I want to see more.

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  #10  
01-07-2017, 11:30 PM
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Only being able to upload tiny clips to this web site doesn't help. We need a user YouTube account, so I created one for all members.

You just need to going an enable being able to upload longer videos, use text now. I tried from two different email accounts and fake phone numbers and it said the numbers were already used on YouTube.

Here is our New YouTube account: (People this is for everyone, do not abuse this

LS edit: Don't do that. Terrible idea for multiple reasons.
  #11  
01-07-2017, 11:46 PM
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We're not doing Youtube, period.

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  #12  
01-08-2017, 04:14 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deter View Post
It has nothing to do with lossless capture, it has to do what looks better to the eye.
Sorry, deter, you misunderstood the other thread completely. You've already forgotten my last critique of the rock concert restoration you posted and I said it looked pretty decent (although you never showed us the source you worked with). So what's your problem? And what does jagabo have to do with it?
  #13  
01-08-2017, 11:01 AM
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Jagabo vs Lord Smurf, would be a hell of a match up. You have two major Video Restoration Gladiators going head to head, in video combat to see who can make the best videos out of a VHS tape. It would bring interest to this lost art. It would bring people in to the realm that VHS tapes can be fixed up and made better. It is good for the community, it is a great promotion for both of them to be broadcasted on a national level using YouTube.

Sanlyn vs Deter doesn't bring the interest level, however

More important, it will make people aware when they see the videos, that hey, I have tons of VHS tapes, wow these guys are pretty good, I want my tapes to look like that. The restorer gets no credit in his work, everyone thinks video is perfect and with out flaws. They are so use to HD TV and perfect quality. A time not so long ago the quality was not perfect and home recorded video had many flaws.

Ok I changed the name on the YouTube channel, wow I really didn't want a new YouTube channel but since you rejected it, oh well....

Last edited by deter; 01-08-2017 at 11:57 AM.
  #14  
01-08-2017, 12:45 PM
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This didn't work as proposed, so locking it.

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