Windows XP capture build?

[JensBV9]

Hello,

Looking to put together a Windows XP build with parts that I have or have readily available to me.

Asrock P4 Combo
https://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/P4%2...#Specification

Intel Core 2 Duo E7400
https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us...6-mhz-fsb.html

Infineon 2GB DDR, 400, CL3 RAM
Ati AIW 9800 PRO
120 GB Sata system disk
2 TB Sata capture disk

No decision on the sound card yet.

As I haven't done much capturing at all, I'm basically curious if this will be running smoothly enough in your opinion?

Input appreciated!

// Jens

[lordsmurf]

Yes, decent, but...

It will be harder to install Windows, because some of these era systems default boot from IDE only. You have to install a slipstreamed installer, to install SATA. Also make sure BIOS is set correctly before install. This isn't really an issue, as you can (and should) use the unofficial/community XP Integral Edition, not some ancient official CD from 20 years ago. That will make it easier.

Audio card must be TBSC, never Creative/SoundBlast (tinny).

Not for a computer novice, but not overly difficult for anybody experienced at building and semi-advanced OS.

[7jlong]

I run my XP machine (ASUS P4P800-E) with the OS on IDE, no problems. The C: drive really only needs to be fast enough to load Windows and drivers into memory, and then a very tiny piece of capture software - it wouldn't be like running giant new programs that regularly need to call up all kinds of plug-ins and resource libraries all the time. Of course you want to keep an XP machine off the internet, which quiets a lot of that system drive activity as well.

If I were you I'd put C: on IDE, which as noted will likely make your machine and Windows happier, and also leave you with two SATA ports - one for active capture, one for temporary storage.

I second LS' recommendation to go Turtle Beach Santa Cruz for audio. They are cheap and plentiful enough to still be worth the risk of buying one "from the wild", as it were. But I recommend keeping those old school troubleshooting tips in your back pocket: if it doesn't work, try a different PCI slot. Mine didn't like the first slot I tried, happy as a clam in the second.

[JensBV9]

Thanks, that is super helpful. I'm sourcing components with the help of ChatGPT as we type. :-)
Will see what I come up with that works with what I already have.

How much RAM are you sporting in that XP build? 2GB? 4GB?

// Jens

[7jlong]

With the caveat that I only run VirtualDub or WinDV on this machine and do absolutely nothing else - I had 2GB (4x512MB), then one of the chips failed. Have to pull them in pairs of course, so I was down to 1GB for a little bit. Have to say, I didn't notice a bit of difference. Eventually went back up to 2GB, but that's as far as I'll go - no obvious need for 4GB that I have noticed (and 2 is still debatable in my mind).

[JensBV9]

I hear you. I have 2x512 Infineons in front of me. As well as a couple of CPUs (Core 2 Duo E7400 for example). I think those will do just fine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 7jlong

With the caveat that I only run VirtualDub or WinDV on this machine and do absolutely nothing else - I had 2GB (4x512MB), then one of the chips failed. Have to pull them in pairs of course, so I was down to 1GB for a little bit. Have to say, I didn't notice a bit of difference. Eventually went back up to 2GB, but that's as far as I'll go - no obvious need for 4GB that I have noticed (and 2 is still debatable in my mind).

Follow-up on hardware:

I'm getting mixed signals on whether the ATI AIW Radeon 9x00 cards will work with motherboards with AGP 8X (1.5V). Every motherboard manual I've had a peek at says it will not run 3.3V cards (which the ATI AIW cards are judging by the info online). I don't want to pay 150-200 bucks for a card I cant use. :-)

On the other hand I get the impressions that it DOES work, despite what the motherboard manuals say. Does this come down to the fact that the Ati cards are backwards compatible with AGP 4X (3.3V)?

What gives? I'm looking at the Radeon 9000, 9600 pro and 9800 pro.

[7jlong]

My board is AGP 8X, I have a very happy ATI AIW 9000 plugged into it.

I'd avoid the 9600 unless you know it comes with a working breakout cable - the DVI connectors to patch in your monitor(s) are included on it, so the card is a total brick without it (and they basically do not exist secondhand).

The 9000 and I believe the 9800 only need the purple ingest cable as long as you patch the audio from AIW -> sound card internally.

[JensBV9]

Ah, good. Sounds reassuring. Yeah, my main two are 9000 and 9800 pro. Had someone offer me a non-AIW one today (which looked really nice) but I wish it was the AIW, of course. Will keep hunting.

I think lordsmurf might have a PAL one in his caves somewhere if it comes down to international business. :-)

Quote:

Originally Posted by 7jlong

My board is AGP 8X, I have a very happy ATI AIW 9000 plugged into it.

I'd avoid the 9600 unless you know it comes with a working breakout cable - the DVI connectors to patch in your monitor(s) are included on it, so the card is a total brick without it (and they basically do not exist secondhand).

The 9000 and I believe the 9800 only need the purple ingest cable as long as you patch the audio from AIW -> sound card internally.

Oh, I blundered that one before! I'm of course looking for the 9700 PRO, not the 9600. That's a no-go for PAL if I understood the info correctly.

AIW 9000
AIW 9700 PRO
AIW 9800 PRO

Those are my aims.

[aramkolt]

I have a couple of 9200's and they seem to work fine in an Asrock AGP8x slot.

You can get them for like $25 here and I'm not sure why you're "hunting" for them haha:https://www.ebay.com/itm/134310655636

They have the theater 200 chipset, don't require fancy dongles (just the easy-to-find purple ones - and you could even make your own fairly easily as that 8 pin mini din is easy to find)

Pretty sure they support both PAL and NTSC. The cable connector on there is actually more of a PAL/European connector actually.

As a further bonus, they have relatively few SMT caps on them if you ever did have to recap compared to a lot of the other models out there.

[JensBV9]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aramkolt

I have a couple of 9200's and they seem to work fine in an Asrock AGP8x slot.

You can get them for like $25 here and I'm not sure why you're "hunting" for them haha:https://www.ebay.com/itm/134310655636

They have the theater 200 chipset, don't require fancy dongles (just the easy-to-find purple ones - and you could even make your own fairly easily as that 8 pin mini din is easy to find)

Pretty sure they support both PAL and NTSC. The cable connector on there is actually more of a PAL/European connector actually.

As a further bonus, they have relatively few SMT caps on them if you ever did have to recap compared to a lot of the other models out there.

I'll add it to the list of cards to check out.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 7jlong

I run my XP machine (ASUS P4P800-E) with the OS on IDE, no problems. The C: drive really only needs to be fast enough to load Windows

I need to reduce spinning drive noise and heat, so IDE is a no-go for me anymore. I'd much rather enjoy faster cooler SSD for the OS, but noting SSD for XP needs special install (format in Win7/8//10/11, reduce swap/etc usage).

Quote:

I second LS' recommendation to go Turtle Beach Santa Cruz for audio. They are cheap and plentiful enough to still be worth the risk of buying one "from the wild", as it were.

You must be careful. I'm finding bad TBSC cards out there now, lots of them, probably bad caps (as the card a zillion of them), and the bad cards emit atypical noises. My main personal system TBSC developed this recently, and several replacements also had problems.

It also doesn't help that eBay/etc sellers are idiots, often shipping the cards in envelopes. One seller actually argued with me about using a box (FYI, box and envelope are same price to ship), and then wrote rude remarks on the shipping box. A lot of those eBay sellers are total POS, but then that's how the general population is, and it doesn't get more "general pop." than eBay.

The same is true to ATI cards. While graphics may work (what they tested, if anything), the video chips can fail. These must be fully tested.

Due to this, I'm probably getting out of acquiring/providing ATI AIW + TBSC cards to the community. My gear tends to come from more reliable sources (as compared to eBay/Mercari/etc, where the junk dealers/resellers are), thus only need expected refurbs. But I've lost too much money on bad buys with this stuff in the past year, too many wild and random issues. I now have a box of crap in various failed states.

Same for motherboards.

Given how long it may take you to do a full build in free time, exceeding 30 days for the eBay return (less elsewhere), you may find yourself screwed, wasting money on something non-working somewhere. Honestly, it's almost a given now.

Welcome to legacy 2000-2010s PC building in the mid 2020s.

Don't get me wrong, these AIW XP systems are some of the best you can create for this task, well worth it. But don't fool yourself into thinking you can treat eBay/etc like Amazon, "add to cart", and you're done. Nope. These are all used items from 10-20 years ago, not something new (and from China) in the Amazon warehouse. Condition matters, and flaws are rarely something you can "see" from a listing photo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aramkolt

Pretty sure they support both PAL and NTSC.

All "support" PAL, but the problem is that some do it with less quality than others. It's more about card drivers that anything else, but those are determined by the hardware. For example, all PCIe AIW card drivers tend to suck, making those AIW inferior to other non-AIW and/or non-ATI cards. Getting the certain version for a certain card can be a PITA, requires trial-and-error. It's why it tends to be best to stick with known knowns.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JensBV9

I'm sourcing components with the help of ChatGPT

I would not do that. If you insist on those chatbots, use Perplexity, so you at least know where the data is coming from. You don't want random data from idiots. ChatGPT is crap.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JensBV9

Had someone offer me a non-AIW one today

No. Do not do this.

Quote:

I think lordsmurf might have a PAL one in his caves

Yep, in one of the mushrooms.

[Benthony]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

Audio card must be TBSC, never Creative/SoundBlast (tinny).

Sorry, do you mean that the sound card can effect the quality of audio capture? I recently used an XP PC to make captures, and the audio was a little more muffled/low end than I was expecting. Now I'm wondering if the PC I used played a role in that. Not a huge deal, just wondering

[lordsmurf]

ATI AIW is just video, quality of audio card determines audio quality. Creative/SB is tinny.

[Benthony]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

ATI AIW is just video, quality of audio card determines audio quality. Creative/SB is tinny.

Oh, Ok. I used the TV Wonder 600 USB's Audio out so I don't think that would've made a difference then.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benthony

Oh, Ok. I used the TV Wonder 600 USB's Audio out so I don't think that would've made a difference then.

No. But for the 600 USB, you need to run the audio hacl, to avoid distortion. It defaults to a 100% value, and for capture you need 50% of the peak value. This is documented in the forum.

[Benthony]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

No. But for the 600 USB, you need to run the audio hacl, to avoid distortion. It defaults to a 100% value, and for capture you need 50% of the peak value. This is documented in the forum.

I guess I missed that then, although I haven't noticed anything that would be considered 'distortion'. I'm generally happy with my captures but I'll keep it in mind should I redo them.