Purchasing VCRs, bad/nightmare experiences?

Master Tape · #1 02-19-2023, 06:33 PM

After the heads began failing on my trusty old Panasonic 860, i damaged the heads by applying too much pressure when i was cleaning them.. I honestly love this VCR and wonder if the heads can be replaced?

I also had a backup VCR, the highly lauded JVC S9600 but unfortunately the heads are misaligned which is causing jitters on playback and even damaged one of my tapes. Would like to get this fully working.

I then decided to pay a small fortune for a "Seller refurbished" Panasonic FS200 which i hear is the best PAL machine Panasonic have made.. but after waiting a few weeks and being stung by customs in the process.. the damn thing doesn't even play properly. It plays the tapes about 10 times faster than they should resulting in squeaky chipmunk audio but worse.. and a snowy picture.

I also managed to win an auction for much cheaper of the same model.. whilst that plays at the correct speed at least, the heads have absolutely had it and the picture plays all garbled and poorly. Even cleaning the heads didn't help.

I'm at a loss in what to do and really frustrated by all this. I just want a working machine so i can get one with my capturing.

What do i do? Just keep throwing money at more machines on ebay until one happens to work.. or find a repair shop that fixes them up? I don't even know if any such shops still exist near me.

latreche34 · #2 02-19-2023, 11:45 PM

The one that plays fast is probably a NTSC machine, If you are in Europe I believe VCRshop sells working machines, albeit it cost you a lot more.

themaster1 · #3 02-20-2023, 04:11 AM

you don't say precisely what pictures troubles you have but i wouldn't be surprise at all if the guides need a tweak or two, considering all the travel it made to you, not to mention a good cleaning and new grease/ lube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyUY7cFP9zw

hodgey · #4 02-20-2023, 05:43 AM

For some panasonics there are some cheaper models that share heads (or have compatible ones) but not sure if that's the case with the 860. There wasn't a simpler variant of it with less features (only a fancier variant, the HS960) and the later models use a different head drum motor setup, so would have to find another one of the same type probably, unless you manage to find only the heads for sale but that's unlikely. If it was some other part of the mechanism you would be able to salvage something from a cheaper deck but not sure that's doable here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Tape

I also managed to win an auction for much cheaper of the same model.. whilst that plays at the correct speed at least, the heads have absolutely had it and the picture plays all garbled and poorly. Even cleaning the heads didn't help.
.

If you are sure it's the heads that are bad it's possible to swap the head drum assembly from the one that plays to fast into the one with worn heads if the heads on the one that plays too fast are okay. Swapping the head assemblies involve removing some screws, disconnecting a connector and and the head amp. See service manual for specifics.

Master Tape · #5 02-20-2023, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by latreche34

The one that plays fast is probably a NTSC machine, If you are in Europe I believe VCRshop sells working machines, albeit it cost you a lot more.

I don't think it is as i bought it from a seller in Germany.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hodgey

For some panasonics there are some cheaper models that share heads (or have compatible ones) but not sure if that's the case with the 860. There wasn't a simpler variant of it with less features (only a fancier variant, the HS960) and the later models use a different head drum motor setup, so would have to find another one of the same type probably, unless you manage to find only the heads for sale but that's unlikely. If it was some other part of the mechanism you would be able to salvage something from a cheaper deck but not sure that's doable here.

If you are sure it's the heads that are bad it's possible to swap the head drum assembly from the one that plays to fast into the one with worn heads if the heads on the one that plays too fast are okay. Swapping the head assemblies involve removing some screws, disconnecting a connector and and the head amp. See service manual for specifics.

I never thought of that, though the one that plays too fast has a snowy picture, even when i pause it, so not sure if the heads are damaged on that one aswell.

Quote:

Originally Posted by themaster1

you don't say precisely what pictures troubles you have but i wouldn't be surprise at all if the guides need a tweak or two, considering all the travel it made to you, not to mention a good cleaning and new grease/ lube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyUY7cFP9zw

I've captured some examples of the damaged head VCR but i'd need to set up the other machine which is a hassle, but i did record the fast playing machine with my phone the other day. So i've attached some examples below.

hodgey · #6 02-20-2023, 04:47 PM

The too fast one is showing the tape as LP on the display (but it's presumably a SP recording?). No idea what would cause it to play at the wrong speed. If it plays at the wrong speed it will look snowy regardless I think. Did you contact the seller about it?

latreche34 · #7 02-21-2023, 02:38 AM

The one you think it's damaged heads, it is not the heads, It's something else and probably leaky capacitors in the power supply or the video board.
The one with fast speed, it appears that the capstan motor control board is shot or one of the hall effect sensors that control the speed is bad, You can swap the entire capstan motor and its PCB with a good working one and it should fix the problem.

Master Tape · #8 04-03-2023, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by latreche34

The one you think it's damaged heads, it is not the heads, It's something else and probably leaky capacitors in the power supply or the video board.
The one with fast speed, it appears that the capstan motor control board is shot or one of the hall effect sensors that control the speed is bad, You can swap the entire capstan motor and its PCB with a good working one and it should fix the problem.

Thanks. Sorry only just seeing this reply now as it didn't notfiy me at the time.

I've taken some pictures to show inside both units and hopefully we can get to the bottom of the problems.

https://imgur.com/a/PE3iFQO

latreche34 · #9 04-03-2023, 06:00 PM

You will have to do more testing and posting samples, Did you try swapping the capstan motors for the model you have two of?

Master Tape · #10 04-11-2023, 12:09 PM

I haven't, is it easy to do? Where is the capstan motor situated?

latreche34 · #11 04-11-2023, 03:42 PM

Check the service manual for your model.

Master Tape · #12 04-14-2023, 09:48 AM

I found one online, but the way it's worded doesn't make much sense.

I've removed all the screws, it says to remove the wire cable from connector P1508, so do you just pull the bare cables straight out, then they go back in neatly? Just don't want to break anything here.

hodgey · #13 04-14-2023, 01:08 PM

If you think the capstan motor/pcb is the problem on one it would maybe be easier to first test with just swapping the whole mechanism between the two VCRs and see if the one from the "damaged heads" one behaves the same in the "plays too fast" vcr or not. That should give an idea of whether the issues lie in the mechanism/heads/capstan pcb or if the issue is on the mainboard. That's a bit easier than taking off the capstan and connected pcb unless you've already gone that far dissasembling.

Usually these ribbon cables just pull straight out yeah. On later equipment you got connectors for ribbon cables that are secured with a plastic tab or similar you lift up but don't think that was used on these things.

Master Tape · #14 05-09-2023, 07:19 PM

I decided to put the repair job on that machine on hold and just bought a new machine in excellent condition.. today i put in a tape which was crinkled at the start, but was a good half hour into the tape so thought it would be fine to play, and wound it back a bit to capture the section i wanted.. but in doing so it started making funny noises inside, like the tape was snagging, so i stopped it immediately. And just played instead, and it persisted then the picture went weird the machine made a sort of whining noise, so i stopped, then pressed Eject, but the tape refused to come out.. So then i had to open it up to get the tape out, and even that was a struggle as the tape had wrapped itself round one of the metal tape guides, so i had to unwind it off and then that section of tape was crinkled aswell.

So i put that tape to one side, and tried a different one, put it in and it started playing automatically, well i say play, no picture was on-screen, it was playing twice as fast going by the tape counter. So then i pressed Stop.. the off button, but it refused to stop playing. Only way i could get it to stop was pulling the plug.

I've only had this VCR 2 weeks, and now another one has perished, i'm really having no luck. Any ideas what's wrong with this machine?

latreche34 · #15 05-10-2023, 03:51 AM

Not trying to sound harsh but repairing VCR's requires knowledge of how they work, it also requires some experience in doing so. If you want to learn how to repair VCR's on your own you have to read some technical books about VCR's, I will attach some here to get yourself familliar, it's a steep learning curve even when you already have the basic electrical and mechanical knowledge, But it can be fun if you have a lot os spare time:

lordsmurf · #16 05-10-2023, 04:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by latreche34

Not trying to sound harsh but repairing VCR's requires knowledge of how they work, it also requires some experience in doing so.

And to add, it can be extremely frustrating. It's not too different from car repair, where fixing one aspect simply reveals another problem. Rarely is it a singular fix, and done.

Also be careful of info on how to repair VCRs, especially crap you see on Youtube. The PDFs attached in the last post may be fine (when I get time, want to browse myself, new tips never hurt!), but be suspect/leery of random information. Even manufacturer info can be misleading and wrong, so beware; saesoned techs learn that decades ago. On Youtube, there are some well known experts like 12voltvids (not 100% accurate either, but 95%+), but there's also a lot of idiots that actually break stuff worse, or "fix" (NOT FIX!) it.

To some extent, there is some truth to "you had to be there" to understand the intricacies of analog videotape gear. Simply reading old manuals will never give you the deep understanding needed for these. It's why we read so much ignorance about videotapes, trying to treat it like digital sources. It's very much a time locked science, and as more techs pass, we're all screwed long-term.

The 2000s "convert your video now, or else!" scaremongering was all BS. But now, the 2020s, some truth to it. Start now. And don't waste your time on junk gear (if you're not already skilled at deck/TBC/etc repair), just get something that is functioning. Don't be penny wise and pound (£) foolish.

Master Tape · #17 05-11-2023, 11:23 AM

I think i've found the problem. The right roller guide seems a bit too loose and it's probably causing problems in how the VCR functions (ignoring remote control commands or even the buttons on the machine) when playing a tape. And i notice the right roller guide kind of snags the tape a bit when ejecting, which explains why it looks a bit loose inside the tape after.

I'm guessing after the tape got caught and i tried to eject it, its probably pulled on the roller guide and loosened it a bit. So how does one tighten the roller guides, as i can't see any screws?