Youtube comparison: AG-1980 vs. JVC HR-S9900U?

[bookemdano]

Hi all--looking at VCRs and came across this clip on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMz_wM5UhUU

The uploader digitized the same scene from a VHS tape of Disney's Beauty and the Beast on both "gold standard" VCRs and then put them together in a split screen to make comparing them easy.

I'm unsure if this is just subjective preference or not, but the AG-1980 looks decisively better to my eyes--I think mainly because it has very minimal "jaggies" around the edges of things--unlike every other VCR I've seen (including the S9900U in the other half of his video). I assume the Panny is doing some sort of smoothing to accomplish that?

For those of you who have used both JVC and the AG-1980/5710, does this match up with your own experience? Or is it something about animation or maybe even just this guy's particular setup/workflow that reveals such a noticeable difference?

I was really hoping to avoid having to track down/repair an AG-1980--there are so many more suitable JVC models available. But if this video accurately depicts the quality of their respective transfers I may need to bite the bullet.

Maybe there is even something in that video that the JVC does better at than the Panny. If so, please point it out--after poring over it about 20 times I still think the JVC looks decidedly inferior.

Any input on this is much appreciated. I know folks here often recommend having both a JVC and the AG-1980 for different scenarios. I may do that eventually, but wanted to know if this video shows a *typical* difference in their output.

Thanks!

[lordsmurf]

That comparison isn't accurate whatsoever.

- No frame TBC used. So the anti-copy was screwing with AGC.
- The Panasonic likely has bad caps, it's extremely obvious when you see such marked difference in luma quality.

Both sides look lousy. The Panasonic "whites" are pink. Yuck.

I left a comment on the video.

[bookemdano]

I guess you're right about the bad caps, lordsmurf. The same guy has another video he just posted a couple months ago explaining that he had TGrant replace the caps on his AG-1980 in 2016 (a year after the video above was posted).

Here's the comparison--the colors are definitely better. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQ_Ruwmes04

But color aside, I'm still curious about the more jagged lines on black edges in the JVC capture vs. the Panasonic--am I the only one seeing how much smoother the AG-1980 looks in that regard? Or are you saying that's due to not using a frame TBC?

Thanks.

[lordsmurf]

His workflow is bad, this sample tape choice is worse.
- no TBC
- HD card on SD VHS source

Those jagged edges could quite easily be an artifacts of his processing, or the HD card. It's just not an accurate comparison in any way. None.

Retail tapes have very limited value for testing -- mostly to make gear stumble, find the breaking points.

I'm sure the guy means well, but the analysis is entirely flawed, the sample is flawed.

If all aspects are even, the differences in HR-S9800/9900 and AG-1980 are tiny. Mostly some sharpness, maybe minute differences in exposure and color. The chroma profile is usually more apparent than either. The source tapes determine much of the visual impact, as we saw here. It gets way worse without TBCs between the VCR and capture card.

The biggest difference in 1980 and 9900 is the tracking range, with the AG1980 being better on EP and VHS-C than a 9800/9900. And then the field TBC in the Panasonic is different to the JVC, though not necessarily better.

Most of the "quality differences" you see here, in his example, are post-VCR. Not in-VCR, aside from obvious bad caps issues.

[bookemdano]

Great info. Thanks!

[hodgey]

The jaggies look more like processing thing, like mediocre deinterlacing, rather than anything to do with the VCR. I think the brighter image from the JVC just makes it more noticeable. They're visible in the cap replace clip as well.

Both videos are overly compressed by youtube, if the video is scaled to HD before uploading one can retain more quality (and full 50/60 fps if relevant), like e.g this(not my video).

[bookemdano]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hodgey

The jaggies look more like processing thing, like mediocre deinterlacing, rather than anything to do with the VCR. I think the brighter image from the JVC just makes it more noticeable. They're visible in the cap replace clip as well.

Both videos are overly compressed by youtube, if the video is scaled to HD before uploading one can retain more quality (and full 50/60 fps if relevant), like e.g this(not my video).

Thanks for the reply hodgey. I see your point that maybe the dimmer picture of the AG1980 is just better hiding the jaggies rather than actually rendering them any differently.

After searching further I found that the uploader himself posted a thread here back when he first created it: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video-workflows/6574-panasonic-vcr-vs.html#post38507 with more details on his setup (which is quite different than what is recommended here).

Thanks again for the input.