Ungodly frame drops in VirtualDub?

YellowMoon · #1 06-09-2020, 04:28 PM

Hello, ive recently been getting into the world of capturing VHS tapes. My current setup is:
VCR: Sony SVO-9500MD (Through S-Video)
Capture Device: StarTech USB3HDCAP
My PC setup running windows 10 LTSC: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/f7NJTC (Not counting hard drives, case, etc)
Using virtualdub, ive done pretty much everything said in this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sn_TDa9zY1c) from about 5:30 onwards, and im getting a LOT of frame drops. Like, in 60 seconds i get around 30 frame drops. Ive tried disabling the previews for both audio and video and disconnecting from the internet on my PC. What could i do to prevent frame drops with this setup?

lordsmurf · #2 06-09-2020, 09:47 PM

I really hate seeing that Youtube video -- because it's wrong.

Use sanlyn's VirtualDub settings guide -- but note my comments in a reply post.

And the main issue is lack of external frame TBC.

I really dislike those medical VCRs (SP mode only, other issues), and forget offhand if it has a line TBC. But line TBC doesn't prevent dropped frames, and only cleans the image on playback.

Also not the best capture card. HD cards do SD video capture quite poorly. I'm fairly certain that Startech is a rebadge of something, or partial clone. But forget the details. It's been posted about in this forum, maybe VH, in the past.

Essentially, the issue is the hardware. Either lack of, or craptastic quality.

jwillis84 · #3 06-09-2020, 10:54 PM

Eek!

The Trifecta of:

USB 3.0
Sony
Windows 10

You poor fella

The only way it could be worse is trying to capture on a laptop with an external USB drive.

YellowMoon · #4 06-10-2020, 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

I really hate seeing that Youtube video -- because it's wrong.

Use sanlyn's VirtualDub settings guide -- but note my comments in a reply post.

And the main issue is lack of external frame TBC.

I really dislike those medical VCRs (SP mode only, other issues), and forget offhand if it has a line TBC. But line TBC doesn't prevent dropped frames, and only cleans the image on playback.

Also not the best capture card. HD cards do SD video capture quite poorly. I'm fairly certain that Startech is a rebadge of something, or partial clone. But forget the details. It's been posted about in this forum, maybe VH, in the past.

Essentially, the issue is the hardware. Either lack of, or craptastic quality.

Thank you for the info! I'm going to keep this capture card as it has HDMI input and use it for that. I personally really like this VCR, but to each their own. What capture card should i get for the best possible quality? My budget is 100-200 dollars. Also, any reccomendations for an external TBC?

dpalomaki · #5 06-10-2020, 06:46 AM

A couple additional observations about the youtube video.
- He is capturing from a "Handycam" not a VHS VCR. HandyCam is a Sony term so it might be from a Hi8/video8 source with internal TBC functionality at some level.
- He said he is capturing to a RAID. That usually means fast storage. Capturing to the system drive (i.e., drive "C") is often problematic.
- No mention of A/V software, A/V can get in the way of capture.

YellowMoon · #6 06-10-2020, 07:14 AM

Didnt notice he was capturing to a RAID. I'll try capturing to one of my internal hard drives that doesnt have anything running on it and see if that makes a difference. Thank you

jwillis84 · #7 06-10-2020, 08:50 AM

Used hardware is probably better, from someone you trust if possible.

Something like ATI 600 USB or ATI All in Wonder AGP cards.

If you have to buy new and need current year drivers.. you (might) try Hauppauge USB Live 2 (Uncompressed), or a Hauppauge PCIe Collosus 2 card (Compressed) with the optional SD video connector cables (sold separately on special order through Hauppauge). The quality is variable but they cost less than something like an Dark Crystal from Avermedia (a lot less). Stand alone an old Avermedia ER310 (Compressed) can record direct to an internal 2.5 in disk or USB stick from HDMI or Component video. Again (not the best.. best is older equipment because it hasn't been neutered to specialize in Digital signal capture and older is more tolerant of poor quality Analog video signals)

The corona virus had stopped shipments from their suppliers, but I think they are receiving stock again by now.

Everything is imports now. The choices are slim for SD video.

Finding a good VCR is harder, finding a working TBC is hardest and costs a lot.. if you get desperate enough you might try a DVR recorder to sub as a TBC.. but (it is Not a TBC) its merely the only .. next best thing.

All of this does not discuss Analog or Digital Copy Protection embedded in the signal, some sources have that and can interfere with capture.. most modern gear will completely stop recording if it detects Copy Protection in the signal. Thats a whole other discussion.. right or wrong.. possible or impossible.

dpalomaki · #8 06-10-2020, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Finding a good VCR is harder, finding a working TBC is hardest and costs a lot.

At least verified good units can be bought for a project and then resold at the end, usually with minimal to no loss.

YellowMoon · #9 06-10-2020, 10:08 AM

Alright, so after following that virtualdub guide, turning off my internet, closing everything that wasnt a necessity, and capturing to an internal hard drive that wasnt doing anything, i didnt get any frame drops in the 60 second test i did! Heres the test clip on youtube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0rQN6rDcFc), is there anything obviously wrong with this that someone whos new wouldnt be able to notice? I can upload it to MEGA or something if that helps. Also, anyone know of a good guide should for making the capture 60FPS? Similar to this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzqJZNymn1Q).

lordsmurf · #10 06-10-2020, 12:39 PM

Do not capture anything other than the source framerate: 25fps (PAL), 29.97fps (NTSC).

When bob deinterlacing with QTGMC post-capture, you can then make it 50 (PAL) or 59.94 (NTSC).

It is never 60fps. That Youtube clip showing 60fops looks like total garbage. The fields are vibrating, and there is artifact and motion oddness.

If you're capturing VHS via HDMI, you're probably screwing it up. It's double-processing, and usually not in a good way. I'd need to see samples. Use HD cards only for HD sources. Use SD cards for SD sources.

YellowMoon · #11 06-10-2020, 01:17 PM

I'm capturing it with 29.97fps, as my tapes are NTSC. I'm capturing the video using S-Video, no converters or anything of the sort. I will also mention, i did mean 59.94fps as im still learning some of the terms and stuff haha. That link in my previous comment should be uploaded now. Thanks again!