ATI AIW capture problems?

[Mattneedsadvice]

I recently started a project to digitize old home VHS tapes (using suggestions from this site, so thank you for all who have contributed), and I am running into some issues with the ATI AIW capture hardware/software.

My setup consists of the following:
Mitsubishi hs-hd2000u d-vhs -> Datavideo TBC-1000 -> ATI AIW card (various, details below) -> Virtualdub capture (have tried both 1.9.11 and 1.10.4 without noticing a difference)

First AIW card
ATI AIW USB (known working unit from LS)
XP Pro SP2 (dual boot system with Win7 64 bit also installed)
Asus P8Z77-V Pro/thunderbolt motherboard with fully updated bios and drivers
Core i7-3770 CPU
16 GB memory (only 4 available for XP)
2TB SATA OS HDD (2 paritions for XP and Win7)
2TB SATA capture HDD
Catalyst drivers from 180-V01089-100 disc
Everything installs with no errors, but I ran into issues when trying to capture in Virtualdub.

Problems:
1) When I try to change the data format to YUY2 from UYVY I get an error that the capture device does not support this format. I would like to use Huffyuv. Am I correct in my understanding Huffyuv requires YUY2 or RGB?

2) When I change the resolution from 720x240 to 720x480, the display window doesn't show anything when using the 'Overlay' setting in the Video tab. Switching to 'Preview' seems to work, but I've read here that this is not ideal since it can cause dropped frames and other issues.

3) If I leave the 'Insert null frames...' box checked in the 'Timing...' options under the Capture tab, Virtualdub insers tons of frames (like 10-20 frames per second). If I uncheck the insert null frames, I get 0 drops or inserts, and the audio seems fine (based on quick test captures).

Second AIW card
ATI AIW 2006 Edition AGP (from ebay, but new in sealed box)
XP Pro SP2
Asus P4P800-E Deluxe motherboard (original bios, updated drivers)
Pentium 4 3.4Ghz
4GB memory
250GB SATA OS HDD
2TB SATA capture HDD
Santa Cruz Turtle Beach sound card (from ebay, likely one of the Dell ones), connected internally to AIW via AUX input. Drivers from this site.
Initially installed with included drivers (Catalyst disc 180-V01111-100). Initial installation completed with no errors.

Problems:
1) When I tried to capture in Virtualdub using included drivers, changing the data format from UYVY to YUY2 caused the preview window to break (using either the overlay or the preview settings). I believe the default resolution was 704x480, and changing this to 720X480 could cause problems, but not with the consistency of changing the data format to anything other than UYVY.

2) When I made any changes to any settings after initially entering capture mode, the audio stopped working (even turning the audio meter on or off would break the audio, 'Enable audio playback' was always left unchecked). If I didn't change any settings after entering capture mode, starting a capture would break the audio. Video would capture fine, but there would be no audio.
3) I tried using the MMC software to do a test capture, but the saved file was always 0kb. I could hear and see the video in the TV window, and it didn't give me any errors when recording, but it didn't actually write anything to the file.

3) I uninstalled all the Catalyst software, and tried installing the drivers from an AIW9600 (Catalyst disc 180-V01085-100) instead. I did get an error when the DAO was installing, but clicked through it, and the installation completed. This fixed capture in Virtualdub, but I was getting an error in device manager saying the TV Tuner couldn't start. My video cards were also identified as 9600 as opposed to 2006 edition in device manager, but seemed otherwise fine.

I tried uninstalling and reinstalling with the original drivers, but had the same issues from the first install. I tried some drivers downloaded from this site which the poster said were for the 2006 edition, but I had the same issue with the TV tuner not starting as when I used the 9600 drivers, although I didn't get any errors when installing the DAO this time. (My video card was also identified as a 9600 in device manager with these drivers, so I'm guessing it was actually a 9600 install disc, but a slightly older or newer than mine). I tried installing just graphics drivers from the 2006 edition disc, then everything else from the 9600 disc, but I had the same capture issues as when I installed everything from the 2006 edition disc. I eventually just installed the 9600 drivers from my disc again (no errors during DAO this time either, but TV Tuner still would not start).

I'm not using the TV Tuner (I probably can't even if I wanted to since I'm guessing it's analog), so I don't really care that it is broken. But I am wondering if there is some other conflict or incompatibility that will cause issues for me (beyond my OCD annoyance at the yellow exclamation point in the device manager).

Third AIW card
ATI AIW9600 (from ebay, but new in sealed box)
XP Pro SP2
Asrock 775i65G motherboard (original bios, updated drivers)
Pentium D 3.4 Ghz
2GB memory
250GB SATA OS HDD
2TB SATA Capture HDD
Santa Cruz Turtle Beach sound card (from ebay, likely one of the Dell ones), connected internally to AIW via AUX input. Drivers from this site.
Catalyst drivers from 180-V01085-100 disc

This setup seems to be working without any problems, but after observing Virtualdub captures with the AIW USB, and the AIW2006 Edition, I am wondering if the 9600 is doing some automatic cropping/resizing during capture, and if I therefore need to be more careful with aspect ratios.

When I capture at 720x480 with the 9600 card I see large black edges in the preview window. If I capture in 640x480, the picture extends to the edges of the preview window (maybe the capture card is telling Virtualdub the content is 4:3?). When I load the captured 720x480 file, then the video fills the preview window regardless of the resolution I captured in (no black edges). I'm assuming the AVI file doesn't have any DAR info, so Virtualdub doesn't know the image should be 4:3, but I was expecting black overscan borders.

When I capture at 720x480 with either the AIW USB, or the AIW2006 edition using the 2006 edition drivers, the video mostly fills the preview window (like Virtualdub doesn't know the DAR this time), except for 16 horizontal pixels (basically all on the right side in my test capture). When I load the captured video in Virtualdub, those borders are still there. This is the behavior I expected (720 horizontal pixels, 704 with actual video, 16 in overscan area but not necessarily centered).

Capturing with the AIW2006, but using the 9600 drivers, I get the same behavior as when capturing on the 9600 (Virtualdub seems to know content is 4:3 during capture, and the overscan area is cropped). On the surface, it seems like the automatic cropping is a good thing since I don't have to pad/recenter, but the 8 or so pixels of head switching noise at the bottom is still there, so I'll have to pad that anyway, and I'm wondering if my video will now be stretched if I just take the 720x480 AVI, and tell an encoder the image should be 4:3 (Final encode for viewing will probably be H.264 so the videos can easily play on smartphones, tablets, smart tvs, etc).

Should I be capturing in 704x480 instead, then adding 8 black pixels to each side, then telling the H.264 encoder the aspect ratio is 4:3? Alternatively, should/can I set the DAR to 176:135 (4/3 * 704/720)?

For that matter (apologies for getting a little off topic), if I'm not encoding for DVD, but only H.264, is any SAR or DAR 'legal'? I've read DVD has to be 720x480 or 704x480 (maybe some other legal resolutions), but does h.264 in an mp4 container need to comply with certain 'legal' resolutions? Can I for example take a 720x480 AVI, crop off 16 pixels of overscan from the sides and 8 pixels of head switching noise from the bottom, then tell an encoder to encode the 704x472 AVI file to a 704x472 mp4 with a DAR of 704:531 (4/3)*(704/472)*(480/720)?

I'll attach a few clips, one captured from the 9600 and one from the USB so you can see what I mean. The AVI files were too big, so I did an mp4 encode in handbrake (not ideal I know, but I haven't really gotten into cleanup/encoding yet, so I used this to have something to upload)

Thanks!

[msgohan]

Don't know about most of your questions, but I can say:

You don't need to change from UYVY. There is no difference except to programmers. Only the order of bytes is different compared to YUY2 (which is also called YUYV; the letter order identifies the order that the bytes are stored in).

Huffyuv will compress UYVY with no problem. It internally changes the byte order to YUY2, so when decompressed the output will be 100% identical whether you feed it UYVY or YUY2.

Hope that made sense.

[Mattneedsadvice]

Thanks for the tip! I read I could switch between them without quality loss, but I was thinking I would have to do a re-encode to YUY2 Huffyuv after capturing UYVY uncompressed. Good to know Huffyuv is happy to do that for me during capture.

I'm still suspicious there's a driver problem or something that is preventing me from using Overlay or getting YUY2 output from the capture card, but this should make the workflow with the AIW USB easy as long as Preview doesn't cause problems.

[lordsmurf]

"new" means nothing in the 2020s.
"sealed" means nothing either, re-sealing is simple (and lots of scummy eBayers do it all the time)

If a "new" card was stored in a non-temp-controlled storage unit for years -- and FYI, very common at eBay -- then it's screwed. Nothing new about it. Fried, melted.

So you need to understand that, don't assume. Bad card is still in play.

Now then...

YUY2 can make a difference in some software, but I'd leave it alone if I had issues. And I think that happened before, on a system, some years ago. Vague memory now.

Huffyuv needsto be set as YUV (YCrCb) for analog capture.

The 720x240 issue is a nuisance. Driver related. In that case, use Preview mode, nothing much else to do. Dropped frames isn't an issue if you using modern SATA/dual-core system, not some ancient single-core P4 and IDE. I see no good reason to use something that old anymore.

If you uncheck either top option in timing, the drop and inserts, you are only hiding the fact that frames are being dropped or inserted. Do not do that. If it inserts, it inserts. If you uncheck, it still inserts. The "0 drops frames" underneath the preview window is BS, it always shows 0. As per another thread, I want to re-work VirtualDub for capture only, and that thing has to go. Nonsense non-counter. The right column counter it all that matters.

0kb MMC capture has many possible reasons. I'd not bother troubleshooting it right now.

Sad but true, a botched ATI AIW install often means reinstall Windows and start over. It octopusses itself in the OS, and that "uninstall" utility doesn't work well, 50/50.

2006 vs. 9600? Driver issues now seems likely.

Capture 720x480, crop 8 from each side, resize to 640, encode H264 to 640x480 or a multiple.

DAO should not give you errors.

This could be as easy as the HDD with issues. Or the SATA cable.

DVD is a disc.
DVD-Video is structural format. It has resolutions, etc.
H.264 is a codec, not a format. You can set it to whatever (smart or dumb) size you want. 720x4? Check. 720x480? Check. Noting that H.264 block multiples and mode matter (8x8, etc).

[Mattneedsadvice]

Thanks for the reply!

Yes, I suppose "unopened" would be a better term since they are more than 15 years old. Good tip for buying on Ebay; maybe they were resealed, but with all the accessories sealed, manuals looking unopened brand new inside, etc, I think they actually were never opened, and I'm thinking/hoping I got lucky with no damaged capacitors or anything either. I'm guessing my issues are Windows/driver related, as I got them mostly working for capture and graphics, and I couldn't see any damage, but I can't rule out hardware issues completely.

The AIW USB is on a more modern build (SATA HDD, 4 core i3770), so hopefully preview doesn't cause issues.

I'll go back and check on behavior of the drops/inserts. I think I was looking at the correct counter to the right of capture preview. It was like Virtualdub was expecting 50 fps and inserting 20fps since it was inserting literally thousands of frames. Maybe an interlaced thing with Virtualdub expecting 480p instead of 480i? I'll go back and do some experimenting. I noticed similar behavior when I was trying different drivers for the AIW2006 after installing the drivers AMD has on its website. I think I read on another post you mentioned those drivers are terrible for capture, so I didn't spend much time troubleshooting.

I'll try a clean Windows install with the 2006 and see what happens. I had to resort to that on my dual boot setup already after royally messing up that install trying to fix USB issues, so it shouldn't be too difficult now that I kind of know what I am doing.

Would there be any benefit to capturing 720x480 and 640x480 simultaneously to avoid the resize before the H264 encode? (Use the TBC 1000 as splitter/amp to 2 capture cards, keep the 720x480 as master, maybe encode MPEG2 interlaced for highest quality version that's playable on a TV, deinterlace the 640x480 then encode H264 for smartphones, etc) Or is this totally misguided, and I should do the resize for H264?