MiniDV to AVI capture setup?

[nickytbhp]

Hello All,
I am new to this forum and this whole scene of capturing video, though I like fiddling with gadgets. I have 3 professionally shot (3CCD JVC camera it was with videographer) miniDV cassettes of my wedding.
Then I bought Canon ZR850 from USA (I am in India) to capture honeymoon and other family videos. I still have ZR850 but lost cables.

To avoid hassle, I gave 3 wedding and 7 other cassettes to professional converter. He gave me MPEG files with 7GB each (1 hour).
I tried different tools like deinterlacing QTGMC in Hybrid, Topaz Video AI and Davinci Resolve. Results were strictly OK. After research on different forums, I realised that my mpeg files are probably not upto the mark for further processing.
Professional converter used Pinnacle Studio software, Pinnacle Systems (pic attached) and Sony miniDV camcorder/Panasonic NV-GS25 (one of these, he forgot whichone. pics attached).
Now, I am asking him for AVI dump and he is ready to provide.
My questions are:
1. is this setup (with professional converter) good enough for good raw output for further processing (not expecting miracle but some improvements)?
or
2. should I use my Canon ZR850, directly connecting it with firewire cable to compatible PC with firewire port (possible to source. I personally have MacBook Air M1 with windows 11)?
or
3. do I need to put capture card between ZR850 and PC?

I have gone through different threads and got confused. Attaching pics for your reference.
Also attaching pic of MPEG file info (professional converter gave) from professionally shot miniDV of my wedding. It's PAL, 720x576, 10000kb/s, 16:9, YUV, 4:2:0, 8bit, Interlaced, 25fps

[lollo2]

If you have miniDV tapes you should transfer (not capturing) them to your PC. No Analog, no MPEG2, nothing else. Just a copy of what is on your tapes to your hard disk. Option 2 is all you need.

[nickytbhp]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lollo2

If you have miniDV tapes you should transfer (not capturing) them to your PC. No Analog, no MPEG2, nothing else. Just a copy of what is on your tapes to your hard disk. Option 2 is all you need.

Such a relief to hear this. I shall be doing it soon

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nickytbhp

I gave 3 wedding and 7 other cassettes to professional converter. He gave me MPEG files with 7GB each (1 hour).

In the 2020s, ridiculous. Did you request MPEG files? Probably not a pro, just a quack/amateur using shoddy gear and methods. At first, it sounded like a low-end DVD recorder strikes again. I'd need to know more, but already don't like what I'm reading here.

Quote:

I tried different tools like deinterlacing QTGMC in Hybrid, Topaz Video AI and Davinci Resolve. Results were strictly OK. After research on different forums, I realised that my mpeg files are probably not upto the mark for further processing.

That "pro" may have further screwed up the fps, PAL/NTSC issues. Messy, sloppy.

Quote:

Professional converter used Pinnacle Studio software

Unacceptable. Literally one of the lowest end softwares out there, reduces quality, lots of bugs.

Quote:

, Pinnacle Systems (pic attached)

Truly ancient garbage that wasn't good even when new. Just like how a broken clock can be accurate twice per day, Pinnacle made a couple of decent capture cards. But most Pinnacle cards are crap.

Quote:

My questions are:
1. is this setup (with professional converter) good enough for good raw output for further processing (not expecting miracle but some improvements)?

No.

And that converter is not "professional" whatsoever. Pinnacle made consumer gear, and "pro" was used too liberally.

History/trivia: At the time that Pinnacle was claiming "pro", actual pro cards were made by Matrox/Canopus, few others, and prosumer cards like ATI AIW made it look ridiculous. It was being called "pro" because Matrox/Canopus made NLE cards, for connecting to quality NLEs. Pinnacle gave the crappy Studio as the NLE, and marketed it as "pro" as well. Ridiculous. After Avid acquired Pinnacle in 2005, the "pro" BS all went away. Avid dumped their consumer attempts into Pinnacle branding, and the few non-capturing pro Pinnacle tech became part of Avid.

Quote:

2. should I use my Canon ZR850, directly connecting it with firewire cable to compatible PC with firewire port (possible to source. I personally have MacBook Air M1 with windows 11)?

Yes.

Quote:

3. do I need to put capture card between ZR850 and PC?

Maybe. The DV transfer method does lose seconds of footage at the file/segment breaks, in the (mostly dumb) attempt to avoid transferring snow. That's fine if you properly shot with lead-in/out, but potentially horrible if you pressed record right at the start of something. For example, using the DV transfer, you may not hear grandma start singing Happy Birthday, but "... to you" is where it starts. The analog method doesn't try to avoid snow, and would grab the entire "Happy Birthday to you". Sometimes seconds matter. Watch for this, realize you are NOT getting 100% of the footage off the tape with DV transfer, but somewhere in the high 9x%.

If seconds matter + ultimate quality matters, then you'll capture both, re-merge those seconds. But with lossless capturing, sometimes the analog is just as good as the digital. It depends on many factors, including the D>A>D quality. For most folks, best avoided, DV transfer it.

Quote:

It's PAL, 720x576, 10000kb/s, 16:9, YUV, 4:2:0, 8bit, Interlaced, 25fps

Horrible specs there, this person doesn't know what he/she is doing whatsoever.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lollo2

If you have miniDV tapes you should transfer (not capturing) them to your PC. No Analog, no MPEG2, nothing else. Just a copy of what is on your tapes to your hard disk. Option 2 is all you need.

Correct.

[nickytbhp]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

In the 2020s, ridiculous. Did you request MPEG files? Probably not a pro, just a quack/amateur using shoddy gear and methods.

Thanks a lot, lordsmurf.
I just found another guy who has miniDV player deck (SONY brand). This deck has firewire port and it's connected directly to PC with firewire port.
I hope this will give 1:1 copy of my miniDV in AVI format. He is ready to give me AVI file. he uses premier pro software. Do I need to cross check which codec he will use for this AVI container or it's by default DV AVI in premier pro for raw footage?

Attaching his deck photo for reference.

[Hushpower]

If it's DV, use WinDV or Scenalzyer.

If it's HDV, use HDVSplit.

[latreche34]

Be careful with premier pro software, If the project setting is not set correctly it can create files that are not DV compliant and the damage is irreversible, even with right setting there is still room for mistakes, I had to learn that the hard way, Sclive is designed for raw DV extraction, Ask him to use it, if he started to give you the run around like it's state of the art software or I've been using it for years ... get your tapes back. I use the exact same deck with Sclive and HDVsplit with no problems.

[nickytbhp]

Quote:

Originally Posted by latreche34

I use the exact same deck with Sclive and HDVsplit with no problems.

Sounds great. Thanks for the heads up.
Will ask him for the same.

[nickytbhp]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hushpower

If it's DV, use WinDV or Scenalzyer.

If it's HDV, use HDVSplit.

He is now using scenalyzer 4.0 for my miniDV. He got multiple small files. I want 1 single file for 1 miniDV tape. I have asked him to make scene detection setting to ‘no’. Also asked him to select unlimited storage ntfs format.
These multiple files altogether were of 20gb size. Is this the correct size for 60 minutes miniDV 1:1 transfer?

[dpalomaki]

MiniDV data rate is 25 Mbps. That translates to roughly 12 GB per hour

[traal]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nickytbhp

He is now using scenalyzer 4.0 for my miniDV. He got multiple small files. I want 1 single file for 1 miniDV tape. I have asked him to make scene detection setting to ‘no’.

Does Scenalyzer save your chapter stops?

The advantage of multiple files is that you can load them all into MakeMKV to create one output video and also have it create one chapter stop per input file. After that, you can rename the chapters, remove specific chapter stops, etc.

[Hushpower]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Traal

Does Scenalyzer save your chapter stops?

What are DV chapter stops?

[latreche34]

He means the metadata for scenes detection, I've never played around DV metadata but I've read that some programs can read it, not too sure what can be detected and what not.