Component output for MiniDV?

[kountryjoe]

So I just tried component out on a Sony Hdv deck and also svideo out. I noticed a better color come out on svideo versus component. I know FireWire is the best but wanting to know why svideo better than component. Thanks

[latreche34]

How do you know it's better, did you compare both to the firewire stream? Vivid colors does not always mean better.

[lordsmurf]

Clarify:
composite, 1x yellow wire
component, 3x YUV cables

The chroma (color) can be better. Not more vivid, but rather less artifacts, less loss. But it has nothing to do with composite or component, and everything to do with the quality of the processing within the deck/camera to output the composite or component. Not all processinging is equal.

What is the exact model of the deck?

[kountryjoe]

So I have several decks and all had the same issue of color being off. The decks I have are hvr 1500, dsr 45a, hvr m35u. And talking about component connection. I took a pic with my phone off computer screen. Not the best but you can see the color shift. Most stuff I capture is people’s home videos so not top quality stuff. I am just trying to learn why this happens lol. For now I am going back to svideo out.

[dpalomaki]

That screen looks like BMD's MediaExpress is involved. What Capture card are you using?

FWIW the BMD IP4K is knows to have fatal flaws (really dorked up levels) in its component capture of SD video while S-VIDEO capture is OK.

When posting screen shots of a PC monitor you may find better results using the snipping tool than you get using a cell phone or other camera.

[hodgey]

Component should in theory be better as it has higher bandwidth and is closer to how the video is stored on tape. S-Video involves an extra step of encoding the color to NTSC or PAL format. In practice it might depend on how it's handled by capture device or similar though. It's possible that with s-video the saturation ends up being boosted a bit too making it look nicer but idk.

Firewire is generally preferable to either though since you get the direct copy of what's on tape, including metadata like timecode etc.

[latreche34]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kountryjoe

Most stuff I capture is people’s home videos so not top quality stuff. I am just trying to learn why this happens lol. For now I am going back to svideo out.

If I'm a customer I will be pissed, DV/HDV should be transferred via firewire not S-Video, If you can't do firewire transfer of the tape inform the customer that the quality will be slightly degraded and let them make the call. For you is not top quality stuff but for them it is priceless.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by latreche34

If I'm a customer I will be pissed, DV/HDV should be transferred via firewire not S-Video, If you can't do firewire transfer of the tape inform the customer that the quality will be slightly degraded and let them make the call. For you is not top quality stuff but for them it is priceless.

There are times that s-video (to lossless, with a quality capture card) is viable. So don't be too pissed. It's not complete destruction of quality as you'd get to non-lossless (lossy), using cheap capture cards.

That said, I take a dim view of:

Quote:

Originally Posted by kountryjoe

Most stuff I capture is people’s home videos so not top quality stuff. I am just trying to learn why this happens lol.

To be blunt, that's a complete BS statement. That's just an excuse to ruin video quality. And to add "LOL" is just an unprofessional crap apathetic/uncaring attitude.

[kountryjoe]

I just notice a color shift. Like everything slightly red or green.

[kountryjoe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

There are times that s-video (to lossless, with a quality capture card) is viable. So don't be too pissed. It's not complete destruction of quality as you'd get to non-lossless (lossy), using cheap capture cards.

That said, I take a dim view of:

To be blunt, that's a complete BS statement. That's just an excuse to ruin video quality. And to add "LOL" is just an unprofessional crap apathetic/uncaring attitude.

I am not trying to ruin video quality or I wouldn't have taken the time to figure or understand why svideo looks better than component. The lol is meant to say that the tapes I am getting are nonprofessional quality, meaning multiple breaks in the tape. LP mode. I do care and wanting to see if there was a technical way of explaining what i posted. So why I am wanting to do component was wanting something better than svideo in theory. I have done betacam tapes in component and look great. So I used same setup on minidv deck and notice the colors were off. Why not do firewire. Multiple things. The quality of the tape recording i get multiple clips or clips that capture every few seconds due to drop audio or frames. I use fcpx and the 3 adapters to go from firewire to thunderbolt 3. Pro minidvs captures or HDV no issues with fcpx firewire capture. Also I use the blackmagic h264 to capture and leave files at 59.94 720x480. When someone wants non compressed files I do firewire and other formats i use BM ultra studio hd mini. So back to the question I asked on svideo vs component for minidv I was just wanting to know if there was a know issue or thing that makes the video look normal vs the component colors being off. Not trying to argue with anyone just want ed to see if anyone was aware or knew something. Thanks

[latreche34]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

There are times that s-video (to lossless, with a quality capture card) is viable. So don't be too pissed. It's not complete destruction of quality as you'd get to non-lossless (lossy), using cheap capture cards.

For HDV is a no no, HDV is HD and S-Video is SD. For DV, It's debatable, depends on how good the playback device's DV decoding and digital to analog processing quality is, and also how good the analog capture devices is. Though I don't see any good reason for doing this since the source tape is the same no matter what the workflow is, The only good reason for going DV over analog is if the firewire port is broken or computer having problems with drivers, this however should not exist when a person doing it for the money.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kountryjoe

I have done betacam tapes in component and look great. So I used same setup on minidv deck and notice the colors were off.

Betacam is lossless analog component in nature, DV is a lossy digital codec, Big difference. If you convert DV to analog then back to digital de-interlaced in h.264 on the fly you get a hot mess, The customer may not know the difference but by an archivist stand point or even a hobbyist like myself it is way too much loss.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kountryjoe

Why not do firewire. Multiple things. The quality of the tape recording i get multiple clips or clips that capture every few seconds due to drop audio or frames.

This is one of the times that mere DV transfer is not available, as mentioned. Somebody will surely come along and suggest that splitting be turned off, but even that doesn't always stop it.

Quote:

I use fcpx

NLEs do a horrible job at transferring DV, or capture analog. Use capture tools. The bigger issues here, of course, is that Mac is not a good OS for capturing. Great for editing, not capturing.

Quote:

Also I use the blackmagic h264 to capture and leave files at 59.94 720x480.

Don't do that. Very messy, very lossy.

Quote:

i use BM ultra studio hd mini. So back to the question I asked
I was just wanting to know if there was a know issue

BM cards are infamous for crappy quality for SD analog ingest.

Quote:

Originally Posted by latreche34

For DV, It's debatable, depends

Yep, case by case.

Quote:

The only good reason for going DV over analog is if the firewire port is broken or computer having problems with drivers, this however should not exist when a person doing it for the money.

Tape based issues can require it.

Quote:

Betacam is lossless analog component in nature, DV is a lossy digital codec, Big difference. If you convert DV to analog then back to digital de-interlaced in h.264 on the fly you get a hot mess, The customer may not know the difference but by an archivist stand point or even a hobbyist like myself it is way too much loss.

It's the video equivalent of cooking food in a microwave, letting it sit out on the counter for a day or two, then microwaving it again. Yuck.

[kountryjoe]

What I have to do is look for another program for capturing dv for these type of tapes. I mean even my decks don't like these tapes and have to play in a consumer camera. Fcpx is limited to capture in segments and doesn't allow me to turn off this feature. Thanks for the feedback.