Best VHS-S VCRs among my local options?

[xdac]

I'm trying to buy a VCR locally, and there are more limited options available compared to eBay. And also, I noticed that most of the models for sale are rebranded JVC (Victor) models originally from the Japanese market, so it's a little difficult to do research on them.

So far, I've found:

Mistushibi HS-MD3000
JVC / Victor HR-X5
JVC / Victor HR-X3
JVC / Victor HRS10000
JVC / Victor HR Z1
Sony WV-D10000
Sony WV-D9000
Panasonic DS900

Their prices range from about $180 to 700. Are any of them standouts - either particularly good or bad?

I'm only interested in using them to convert home movie recordings, no commercially shot content. Planning to get some sort of BlackMagic Intensity Extreme / Studio Express to do the capture (or another BlackMagic option if you have any recommendations). I know ATI are are more recommended, but I cannot get them locally

[lordsmurf]

Welcome.

Where is "local" exactly?
Why are you only willing to buy local?

None of those decks look overly interesting, none are suggested.
- Some of the JVCs made be interesting if you need NTSC-K and read Japanese.
- I suggest entirely avoiding medical decks, the internals are usually disgusting.

Do not use Blackmagic cards for consumer analog sources (like VHS, etc). BM cards are made for HD, and "also do" SD quite poorly. Dropped/black frames is an issue, even with TBCs.

You're also lacking any sort of frame TBC, and that will be required.

[radiokom]

As I know in Japan they can sell in ebay, but can not buy.
This is because of Sintoism in my opinion (sorry I do not want to offend anyone, just a joke).
It is a bit mystery for me how Japanese buy electronics from another countries (I heard there are some intermediary companies what can provide it).
I am not NTSC specialist, but in my opinion Japanese NTSC-J differs from standard NTSC.
As Japanese NAB (NAB-J) standard (rare, but I have seen Denon's with that) for audio 15ips is CCIR and NAB hybrid.
If CCIR time constant for 15ips speed is 35µs + infinity, NAB is 50µs+3180µs, then NAB-J is 35µs+3180µs.
Why? Do not ask, I believe "The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind"

[mts1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

Do not use Blackmagic cards for consumer analog sources (like VHS, etc). BM cards are made for HD, and "also do" SD quite poorly. Dropped/black frames is an issue, even with TBCs.

Not all of them. Intensity Pro (NOT 4K) is a good one.
It is calibrate-able, low noise, stable card. Supports 10-bit capture. No black frames. Drops frame only in "known" spots.
The only thing you have to keep in mind is that it spits out Full Range in UYVY format.
And, as it doesn't have ProcAmp capability, you have to use less favourable option to fix it - digital conversion.
For example, use alias format filter, available in VirtualDub2 in capture mode, and explicitly declare your video as a Full Range one. This way you can add conversion filter and convert it to the Limited Range.

As for Intensity Pro 4K, it is not possible to calibrate it for Component input - it crashes backs.
For Composite/S-Video it is calibrate-able. However, chroma separation circuit adds a nice artistic moire to the image. Unfortunately, I'm not that big fan of that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by radiokom

As I know in Japan they can sell in ebay, but can not buy.

They can buy and they do.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by radiokom

As I know in Japan they can sell in ebay, but can not buy.

Buying from Germany is a PITA. Most people are willing to buy from outside Germany (especially elsewhere in EU), but are very unwilling to send outside Germany. As a Smurfs collector, that has been aggravating for decades. More than once, I've had to get assistance from friends at Ramstein AFB, who would accept local, then use APO to forward. Most Smurfs items come from Germany, Belgium, and Australia.

I ship worldwide.

Quote:

I am not NTSC specialist, but in my opinion Japanese NTSC-J differs from standard NTSC.

Correct. IRE.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mts1

Not all of them. Intensity Pro (NOT 4K) is a good one.
Drops frame only in "known" spots.
The only thing you have to keep in mind is that it spits out Full Range in UYVY format.

And that's what makes it not a good card for consumer formats.

Others commonly report audio sync issues, but no drops, suggesting that the card doesn't properly report dropped frames. There are other cards known do to that, and thus also not suggested (GV-USB2 comes to mind, when using AmaRecTV).

Some people "don't see it", many others do. It's not user error, but flaws of the hardware.

[mts1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

Others commonly report audio sync issues, but no drops, suggesting that the card doesn't properly report dropped frames. There are other cards known do to that, and thus also not suggested (GV-USB2 comes to mind, when using AmaRecTV).

Some people "don't see it", many others do. It's not user error, but flaws of the hardware.

Well, there is no audio sync issue and there is no report on dropped frames, because this card has its own way to cover it up - for every dropped full frame it "triplecates" the last half-frame, i.e. creates another full frame.
The only way to caught it is to have another capture and have a comparison with help of Avisynth. It's a long and annoying process, but it works.
GV-USB2 has way better frame handling than Ezcap, but it skews the image a little bit to the left on the upper side.
Intensity Pro is incomparably better than GV-USB2, which, btw, also gives Full Range too.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mts1

Well, there is no audio sync issue and there is no report on dropped frames, because this card has its own way to cover it up - for every dropped full frame it "triplecates" the last half-frame, i.e. creates another full frame.
The only way to caught it is to have another capture and have a comparison with help of Avisynth. It's a long and annoying process, but it works.

Yeah, that's just not good for consumer formats.

I can see the draw for professional formats, which is what BM cards were intended for. (Even Blackmagic reps/staff have stated this fact, that these cards were not intended for consumer formats.)

[xdac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

Welcome.

None of those decks look overly interesting, none are suggested.
- Some of the JVCs made be interesting if you need NTSC-K and read Japanese.
- I suggest entirely avoiding medical decks, the internals are usually disgusting.

Are these JVC / Victor ones not just rebadged 9500 series VCRs that were previously recommended? I’m not able to get too much information online since I don’t read Japanese…

I’m not entirely sure what format my tapes were in. I know one camcorder my family bought in the 1990s was purchased in the US. Another one purchased in the. 1980s might either be from Japan or US. I was under the impression that since both countries use NTSC formats, it wouldn’t matter?

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

You're also lacking any sort of frame TBC, and that will be required.

Is there any VCR (perhaps a more professional model) with frame TBC built in? I see TBC logos on some of the models I mentioned above, but I’m not sure if they line or frame based

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by xdac

Is there any VCR (perhaps a more professional model) with frame TBC built in? I see TBC logos on some of the models I mentioned above, but I’m not sure if they line or frame based

No, not frame TBC. VCRs only samples lines ("line TBC"), and did not have memory and processing to handle entire frames. That would have massively increased costs.

But digitizing tapes did not yet exist. Mere line sampling is not adequate for capture/ingest.

Line TBC cleans the image.
Frame TBC cleans the signal.
You need both.