How to capture poorly for comparison purposes?

[Haunted_TBC]

Hello all,
This may seem like an awful question, but since I now have several “proper” tape captures, I feel like it could be educational or useful to some to create a comparison with the same tapes using a worst possible (but unfortuanetly very common) device. Would it be the Blackmagic Shuttle USB 3.0, another HDMI converter, or the ClearClick? Of course, no Time-Base Correctors of any sort would be used, as the VHS Composite signal would come out of a working 1985 rebadged Samsung Mono-only VCP that does not seem to be documented on the internet. It would be going directly into an ARM/Apple Silicon-based Mac.
Would it even be worth deinterlacing the video on Hybrid before making the comparison?

[Aya_Rei]

Funnily enough been thinking about doing such a comparison using a Hi8 tape that contains Mario Kart 64 gameplay, already got a proper capture using a Pinnacle 510, but I never got around to wasting money on an Elgato Video Capture in order to make the intentionally shitty capture. I used one two years ago before I experienced my night and day difference by getting a proper workflow from Lordsmurf. Threw out the capture card ages ago.

I'd say go with the Elgato Video Capture, bonus points if you use the built in software, extra bonus points since it'll be the extra worse Mac version.

Now you'd be able to see the kind of captures Got Memories and Emerald Coast Digitizing make, realizing that they do terrible work for their customers, what a rip off!

[Zulbat]

I would actually be interested in seeing a very bad cable vs good cable capture to learn about signal noise. I don't know where to get a bad cable or how to add noise though.

[BarryTheCrab]

Maybe capture a tape at top quality and then send it to Legacy BoXX.

[Haunted_TBC]

I would rather have the signal go from either a Sony DCR-TRV520 or Sony SLV-N700/JVC HR-S29U/Panasonic AG-2560P through to a Haugpauge HD PVR 2 and into my Mac (as is their workflow) without a Time-base Corrector than trust LegacyBox to not lose my tapes or to not store them in horrible conditions for months and maybe also have one of their faulty machines chew up a tape.

[aramkolt]

Standard for comparison is probably the basic Elgato video capture and a basic VCR. The other device that probably gets used the next most often is a clearclick 2.0, or you could go with one of those RCA to HDMI adapters plus an HDMI capture device. I'd say between all of those, that's probably how 90+% of home video captures are still done these days by those that don't look into it further or that want something easy/inexpensive.

[timtape]

Im more interested in the best capture, meaning capturing as close as possible what's on a given tape. Having made that capture, we compare all other captures - of that tape- to it. That's what is meant by a 'standard'.

[vwestlife]

As shown at 12:03, the $90 Elgato ("Elcrapo" as I call it) is the same thing as a $15 Diamond VC500 capture device:

Elgato Video Capture is RUINING the quality of your VHS tapes!

But Elgato's own capture software makes it even worse than what you can get by using something like OBS or VirtualDub2.

[Haunted_TBC]

The Samsung VCP indicator bulb died, so unless I fix that, it looks like I will be sourcing a "LegacyBox Special" VCR.

[Aya_Rei]

Temporarily wasted $95 in order to get the Elgato so that I can compare it to my setup. Used the same camcorder (a Sony CCD TRV-66) for both captures.

Wanted to emulate those shitty transfer services even more by intentionally using composite along with disabling the built in TBC and Digital Noise Reduction that the camcorder has. That and also use the Elgato's built in software.

So here are my comparisons using a Japanese Video8 tape, it ain't much but it's something. Might try and get a shorter video comparison later as the 2 minute one can't be shared here due to file size limitations

[aramkolt]

Yep, definitely a huge difference even for Video8. I'd speculate that doing Hi8 will look pretty similar on the elgato quality-wise, but probably even better on the Pinacle510 via S-Video.

If you're able to do a split screen YouTube post of the same and call it "why you shouldn't use the elgato video capture," you'd probably get several thousand views and an interesting comments section.

I'd probably have a second comparison where the settings are the same on the camera so you can really showcase and isolate the difference that the capture card itself makes as opposed to an essentially worse video source (having no TBC).

[lordsmurf]

Not the best source tape to showcase quality differences. It adds the NTSC-J IRE snafu.

[Aya_Rei]

Should really make the comparison be "Why you should vet what digitization services to use" or something of the sort ah hah.

Maybe I'll film some footage on Hi8 tomorrow and make another comparison, this time keeping the camera playback settings the same, thinking about using S-Video for both captures so that the only elements changed as lack of frame TBC and capture card + software.

Kind of just intentionally disabled the fancy stuff the camera has to emulate how these transfer services (Got Memories, Emerald Coast...) don't use any kind of TBCs nor seemingly S-video. That's also why I stuck with using the Elgato's built in software since they ain't gonna bother using VirtualDub to make raw loseless files.

[aramkolt]

Some of their cameras for digitizing 8mm formats likely do have TBCs, but it's not guaranteed.

VHS would probably be a better comparison since that is probably the main format they convert (and they won't be using a TBC most likely) and it should be easy to grab a vintage recording from somewhere (or you could make a fresh one).

[Aya_Rei]

Probably.. but I don't really care to do extensive testing, anyway got some more screen caps from a Hi8 tape.

All done on S-Video with the playback camera's TBC and DNR enabled.

I know these aren't the best comparisons, and I know video would be better but I quite frankly don't wanna bother with using this garbage card anymore. I think even with cropped to 4:3 screenshots it's easier to see that when using the Elgato with it's built in software that

1. Compression erases noise and fine details
2. Brightness and contrast are completely screwed, enjoy seeing missing detail thanks to blacks being crushed and whites being clipped.

Actually, me even using S-Video to begin with makes this comparison one step ahead those two slop shops, seeing how if they do decide to use S-VHS VCRs/Hi-8 camcorders, they use composite and the Elgato with it's included software.

It's like ordering a fancy steak then taking a giant shit on it before eating it!

I don't care to get the most out of the Elgato by changing the xml settings or switching to a different capture program as I'm trying to emulate what these slop shops are doing to the best of my ability, and without giving them any of my money.

Just wanted to make a quick and dirty example to once again show that the Elgato sucks butt and these kind of people running a business using it are doing a complete disservice to their customers.

Thank the heavens my local transfer services uses S-VHS VCRs and TBCs, I am so happy that compared to the likes of GM and ECD that they know their stuff..

[Haunted_TBC]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aramkolt

Some of their cameras for digitizing 8mm formats likely do have TBCs, but it's not guaranteed.

LegacyBox appears to only use the DCR-TRV520/525 from 2000 (both are identical save for the viewfinder display) which do have a TBC.

[Tea Monster]

For extra fun points, use one of those £5 game upscalers that they go on about on YouTube. I tried that once and the results made an easycap look good.

For the USB result, grab a really cheap easycap clone. Just run it directly from the worst VCR you have directly into Windows 11 and capture with OBS. That should make for some fun and lively discussions over the comparisons.

[Aya_Rei]

Threw together a video comparison, mainly to demonstrate the quality you'd be getting if somebody had me preserve their tapes + apply restoration work to them as oppose to those slop shops that just use an Elgato and nothing else.

So yes, the Pinnacle result (right) isn't the raw capture, but processed with the common Avisynth filters I use. Excuse the dropouts present as the tape itself tends to have a lot with most being baked into them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpZmahLwL2A

[Tea Monster]

What filters do you use? I usually use a brightness contrast and a warp sharpen.

[Aya_Rei]

Most often I besides brightness I use a tiny bit of CCD (Camcorder Color Denoise) along with TemporialDegrain2 and Limited Sharpen Mod + Contrast Aware Sharpen.

Basically a bit of degraining/denoising + sharpening. Nowadays with a smidge of BlindDeHalo, though I'm not sure how well it is.