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10-25-2012, 09:01 AM
abolibibelot abolibibelot is offline
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Hi,

I figured I should try contacting you first, as you seem to be a highly respected expert in those – tremendously interlaced – fields... I have a bunch, I mean, about 50 VHS tapes I've been willing to convert to digital for several years without even being close to get started. I read all sorts of contradictory statements, I bought some devices about which I had read decent reviews (ADSTech DVD Xpress USB box, Panasonic DMR-E95H DVD/HD recorder) or just because they were cheap (a “SilverCrest” branded USB module (1) – apparently rebadged Targa, EM2863 chipset I don't know what it's worth, probably not much –, paid 20 euros in a Lidl, a german chain of “hard-discount” stores – I'm from France by the way). Lately I've been reading many threads on DigitalFAQ, VideoHelp and a few other specialized forums, but it mostly added to the confusion – even though I learned many things, I couldn't really understand the hows and whys or have clear proofs of the superiority of such device or such method without actually experimenting, which would require a non negligible amount of money and willingness to spend it to get devices not guaranteed at all to do a better job than what I already have, as well as a non negligible amount of time which could be better spent if I clearly knew where I wanna go, where I can possibly go for a given investment, and how to go there most efficiently.

My main problem is that most of these tapes are 4 hours tapes recorded (between 1999 and 2003 for the most part) on LP mode (8 hours on a 4 hours tape) with a cheap VCR of a dubious brand named “Portland”. At least it's a 6-heads (so 4 video heads + stereo “Nicam” sound), bought in 1999 so – I may be wrong on this – at a time when the production of these devices was probably mature enough so that even the cheap models had decent build quality ; but still, it's not that great to begin – or end – with... On these forums I read that for such a conversion one should use the best VCR possible, the most common recommandation being a high-end S-VHS model made by JVC or Panasonic with TBC and filtering features, among other sophisticated bells and whistles. But I read recently that LP mode wasn't really a standardized format, so that in most cases an advanced VCR couldn't improve the visual quality, could even make it worse, and that the “best bet” to get the optimal quality was the VCR used to record originally (2), which in my case is still operational, but, as I said, of quite poor quality – a clunky mule compared to the aforementioned workhorses! I didn't actually try a S-VHS VCR yet, but a JVC and a Panasonic basic VHS 6 heads / Nicam models indeed yielded a worse image quality compared to my original Portland in LP mode.

(TBC – not Time Base Corrector but To Be Continued! ;-p)

-- merged --

(Part 2 – I have to send it in 2 parts as I far exceeded the allowed 5000 characters...)

Most of those tapes consist of programs recorded on french TV (so SECAM standard if I'm not mistaken). There are many movies, but I don't need to convert those as most of them are easily available now in much better quality ; so it's mostly documentaries, interviews, debates, stuff not to be found anywhere yet still relevant, that I'd like to preserve. But then again, most of those don't really need to be converted with the absolute best quality available (no personal recordings for instance, with the exception of a footage I made during the 1999 solar eclipse), I'd be generally satisfied with a “decent” result. I made some quick tests (with David Lynch's Dune movie, so as to not deteriorate a desired recording) with the three recording devices I currently have, and to my eyes all yielded more or less decent results. But at the same time I'm divided between that attitude and a willingness to try and have the best result possible with a modest investment and the most relevant method ; I'm torn between the quest for quality and a taste for convenience... That's why I bought this Panasonic DVD/HD recorder, supposedly high-end, and which I thought could get the job done simply and nicely without me bothering too much about tweaking and without me spending a lot of dedicated time on it, as I figured I could simply transfer the recording from the device's hard drive to my PC with no hassle, but it turns out that this isn't possible (or very, very complicated (3)), while the perspective of transfering recordings one hour at a time with a few DVD-RW is dreadful to me. And from what I read here, I could theoretically get a better quality with a mid-range capture card (the ATI All In Wonder series seems to be favoured and those can be found quite cheap now), which would not even require more dedicated time to actually operate (I could dedicate my old circa 2002 computer to this task, so as to not burden my current one), but would surely require a significant time to learn about an intimidating array of notions and settings and subtle tweakings, many trials and errors, and a lot more uncertainty about the resulting quality (how much more can be obtained spending 10%, 20%... 50%... more money and/or time? when does the expected improvement stop being worth the effort?). I wish there were now in 2012 a simple and cheap all-in-one device to quickly convert those VHS recordings in a modern efficient format like H.264 with no hassle and a good quality, but this doesn't seem to exist unfortunately.

So, to sum it up in a few simple questions :
- Would it really improve matters, in my case, to buy a used S-VHS JVC / Panasonic VCR ? I just replied to an anouncement for a JVC HR-S6600 sold 60 euros, which is said to have an issue with fast-forward (apparently overcomed by simply using a quick fast-rewind before pressing play) – is it worth it ? Or, as I stated above, am I better off using the original VCR used to make those LP recordings ?
- Would it make sense, again, in my case, to buy additional specialized equipment, like a standalone TBC ? I really wouldn't like to spend much more than I already did for this task, 150 euros in total would be a maximum, unless it's really easy to resell it at the same price when I'm done, but even so, I don't think I can reasonably afford such expenses right now.
- Could I indeed get better results while spending not much more dedicated time using my old PC with an ATI AIW capture card, with VirtualDub and AVISynth scripts and so on, compared to the Panasonic recorder ? What is the best tutorial available for this ? How much time would I need to get a sufficient knowledge of video capture on computer, and is it worth the effort for a one-time job ? What about those two USB devices, are they really worthless and can I resell them right away, or can they still be used in some situations ?

I hope it wasn't too long and convoluted, and that you won't mind providing me your precious insights and advises, for which I thank you in advance.

Gabriel


(1) http://linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Si...rabber_VG_2000 ; http://www.ciao.fr/SilverCrest_Cle_d...__Avis_1355943

(2) As I read in this post by “orsetto” on VideoHelp : http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/3...=1#post1870077
One of the most informative, practical and thorough I've read on the subject, one of the most helpful considering my situation is very similar to that of the thread's initiator – but you disagreed with it partially, again, confusion stroke back.

(3) http://www.avsforum.com/t/1010518/pa...it-can-be-done


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04-18-2013, 09:04 AM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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I know this is an old post, but wanted to follow up...

Did you ever find a solution that worked? (I know some people put off projects for years, when they first encounter trouble, so there's a very good possibility you just shelved the project)

What you had read about VCRs "not helping with LP" was actually false.

A good VCR, TBC, and capture card, will give you the archival quality you were seeking.


This was an unanswered question or unresolved issue found during a site audit. It's hard to have an FAQ when the answers are missing, or final outcomes are unknown. At The Digital FAQ support forum, questions are never intentionally ignored, and may have been missed due to a forum glitch or human error. More details on the audit. (In some cases, threads have been edited/updated with newer information.)


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