Real-Time HD Capture for Viewing Only

[MrVibrating]

Hiya all.

I want to free up my TV by viewing my PS3's output on my PC's display instead.

My PC display is a 3x3 array (2x Matrox TH2Go, analogue edition), so i figured the way to go is to fit an HD video capture card that can be opened in MPC or VLC, and full-screen the output.

So far i've tried a crappy Winstars USB composite / s-video grabber - the output resolution won't go higher than 320 x 200, so this is useless.. can't even read text on-screen. Also, it encodes on the fly, causing latency.

What i need is a capture method that the PS3 will see as an HD device, and so enabling 1080i component or HDMI input, that'll then display in real-time, preferably uncompromised by any encoding. USB2 or 3 is fine, also PCI-e. Obviously i don't want to spend any more than absolutely necessary.

I've no use at all for recording. Just want to monitor at max resolution with min latency, stretched across a 4k output.

Any advice appreciated...

[msgohan]

You're always going to have some latency added when you use a capture card, since the signal has to go through more hoops before reaching your display device's input.

PS3 -> HDMI -> monitor's internal display processing -> eyes
-vs-
PS3 -> HDMI -> capture card colorspace, etc. processing -> graphics card -> monitor's internal display processing -> eyes

All you can do is try to find one with minimal added delay, and people's sensitivities and use cases differ so it's tough to trust people saying "I feel no lag" with no measurements provided. Are you going to be playing fast-twitch games, just watching video content...?

Devices that use hardware encoders necessarily have a much larger latency, and they are more expensive so for you, definitely confine your options to cards that send uncompressed data to the computer.

If you're stretching across 4K, I would think you'd want 1080p rather than 1080i. But perhaps cost outweighs this.

The absolute cheapest 1080i option is a Chinese card that ignores HDCP called Timeleak HD72A. But according to this blog, its newer sibling the HD72B has higher input delay than other devices and blacks out some pixels on the sides. I believe 72A shares these issues.

Need more info from you before I can suggest other options.

[MrVibrating]

Cheers for helping - yes, gaming, mainly - specifically GTA V. When i read that it wasn't going to be released for PC until late January 2015 i went and brought a 2nd-hand PS3, as i didn't want to wait any longer.

However this is now hogging my TV. I prefer to play games on desktop PC, with the TV on in the corner, pausing the game when something on telly grabs my attention.

So i just want to play PS3 games on my PC display. But because my PC display is made up of multiple units, rather than just one, i can't connect it directly, and must instead route the signal through the PC itself.

I've found cheaper capture cards, like this for instance:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HD-HDMI-Ca...item4622ef2bef

However my main concern is that, as you say, i want an unencoded signal, that'll display in full HD resolution. Some capture cards will capture in full HD, but only for recording - they'll only display SD resolutions in real-time (recently tried a Roxio card that did this - said "full HD" on the spec sheet, but didn't mention this caveat).

So yep, anything more than a few ms latency is just going to frustrate, especially in shoot outs or when driving / racing...

If you think substantial latency is inevitable and unavoidable then perhaps i should just hold off on wasting any more money, and wait for January to come around...

[NJRoadfan]

What is the input situation with your monitors? If any of them has multiple inputs, I would just throw the PS3 on one of them and switch to it as needed. It may be easier to route the TV to the PC, plenty of solutions for that and no lag issues to deal with.

[msgohan]

NJRoadfan, refer to his comment:

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrVibrating

because my PC display is made up of multiple units, rather than just one, i can't connect it directly, and must instead route the signal through the PC itself.

I'm assuming he's unwilling to game on 1/9 of his array size.

A guy on VideoHelp with an unlimited budget was also trying to do this (with fewer screens), and either gave up or just didn't bother to report back. You might try PMing him.

Quote:

I've found cheaper capture cards, like this for instance:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HD-HDMI-Ca...item4622ef2bef

That's the HD72A that I was referring to. It has been a while since I've done a search though, so I guess I shouldn't have linked that particular eBay listing as the cheapest. Currently the absolute cheapest listing I see is a $42 auction for YK761H. I'm not familiar with this card or the manufacturer, but from the photos it appears virtually identical to the HD72A. According to forum & blog, the HD72A uses NXP SAA7160. (You can see in the first link's screenshots that the left and right edges are definitely turned to black, BTW.) The chip markings in some photos appear to say DA19977A/15C182, which would seem to indicate the newer TDA19977A. That's also how I read the markings in the 761H photos.

Quote:

Some capture cards will capture in full HD, but only for recording - they'll only display SD resolutions in real-time (recently tried a Roxio card that did this - said "full HD" on the spec sheet, but didn't mention this caveat).

The silly Roxio Game Capture? It doesn't capture or display in HD; it gets around the limitations of its hardware by letting you use an analog passthrough of your original signal to a TV. Useless for you of course, since you need the uncompressed HD data to come through the PC bus. I'm confused why you'd say it makes HD recordings though; are you referring to a different device?

Quote:

So yep, anything more than a few ms latency is just going to frustrate, especially in shoot outs or when driving / racing...

If you think substantial latency is inevitable and unavoidable then perhaps i should just hold off on wasting any more money, and wait for January to come around...

Sadly, I think so. The best I ever got with my AVerMedia C027 was 33ms (2 frames). I also have a C127; I don't think I ever bothered to test but I doubt it's any better. These numbers are before adding the additional latency of your Matrox TH2Go Analog, which I forgot to add in my little delay chain above.

[MrVibrating]

Quote:

Originally Posted by msgohan

NJRoadfan, refer to his comment:


I'm assuming he's unwilling to game on 1/9 of his array size.

Yep that was kinda important to me. I could route thru just one of the TH2G's but then the PS3 doesn't support any triplehead screenmodes. The only exception i've found is for Gran Turismo 5/6, which allow triplehead by linking 3 PS3's, each to their own monitor. So not much good for me..

Quote:

A guy on VideoHelp with an unlimited budget was also trying to do this (with fewer screens), and either gave up or just didn't bother to report back. You might try PMing him.

Might drop him a shout, cheers...

Quote:

That's the HD72A that I was referring to. It has been a while since I've done a search though, so I guess I shouldn't have linked that particular eBay listing as the cheapest. Currently the absolute cheapest listing I see is a $42 auction for YK761H. I'm not familiar with this card or the manufacturer, but from the photos it appears virtually identical to the HD72A. According to forum & blog, the HD72A uses NXP SAA7160. (You can see in the first link's screenshots that the left and right edges are definitely turned to black, BTW.) The chip markings in some photos appear to say DA19977A/15C182, which would seem to indicate the newer TDA19977A. That's also how I read the markings in the 761H photos.


The silly Roxio Game Capture? It doesn't capture or display in HD; it gets around the limitations of its hardware by letting you use an analog passthrough of your original signal to a TV. Useless for you of course, since you need the uncompressed HD data to come through the PC bus. I'm confused why you'd say it makes HD recordings though; are you referring to a different device?

Yep that's the one; and you're doubtless right - i didn't actually try recording (since i've no use for that), and just assumed it did so since it said it supported 1080i. Since it certainly didn't have 1080i monitoring i presumed 'by elimination' it was referring to recording performance, but evidently i assumed too much. Useless bit of kit, went straight back to the shop..

Quote:

Sadly, I think so. The best I ever got with my AVerMedia C027 was 33ms (2 frames). I also have a C127; I don't think I ever bothered to test but I doubt it's any better. These numbers are before adding the additional latency of your Matrox TH2Go Analog, which I forgot to add in my little delay chain above.

Haven't noticed any delay from the Matrox units, although i guess it may well be non-zero. But then i'm not using high quality monitors so pixel response probably ain't all that either - it's just been a handy way to have 4k for the last 7 years or so - ie. before 4k was 'a thing'.

So looks like NJRoadfan's suggestion might be the best remaining option - route the TV (or its set-top box) through the PC instead. I'd considered this already, just wasn't my no.1 choice. That, or just make do playing GTA without the telly on.. lol silly little extravagances eh, this is getting more hassle than it's worth..