Best capture device for Windows 10?

[2many]

Hello, new here.
Sorry if this is redundant, yet it must have been asked a million times.
I want to transfer video 8 to my pc for further editing.
To start off I have read a few threads that got me to thinking, including this one;
http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vide...s-quality.html

I was about to pull the trigger on a vc500 through amazon.

But let me tell you where I have been and what I have...
Previously, I purchased in the store, the avermedia power directer/power producer. I used it with windows XP. I was able to capture and use the files with other software, as my 2003 sony viao was horribly under powered and over worked. (to handle anything other than capture) Those captures did have what I am now understanding as dropped frames that I had to edit out. Seemed the capture was being gulped and the device had to come up for air...
So as I look for a new capture device that can be used with windows 10 and my HP compaq 8200 elite, I was wondering which may be best for me.
When I populated my compaq with programs, the power directer was loaded, but the other CD-rom (drivers???) was not supported. (says on it, vista, XP w7, ect)... So that software is to old to load.

Reading the above thread on this forum, I see that it has been suggested to use a "pass through"... (tbc)?
I have a couple panasonic dmrE95h's Will those work? Do you need to set the unit to record pause or something like that? (Been a while since I have even used one of dvr's)
The source player will be a Sony ev-s900 (ntsc) (whatever that means) top of the line home deck for playback.
I have over 200 video 8 tapes to digitize and sort through.
Again, this all has been discussed else where on this forum I assume. So please help me decide which way to turn. Point me in the right direction. Sorry if it's just rehash.
Can I use my old avermedia dongle? get an updated new driver for it? It was approximately 2008 purchase date.
Just buy a new device with drivers? If so, the diamond vc500? What about the elgato unit on amazon for 79 bucks?
What about the issue with out of sync audio so many people have with many brands?

All guidance is welcomed and thanks ahead of time!
2many

Fortunately, I have two ev-s900's and two dmr E95h's which are in great shape so I should be able to pass 200+ tapes through.

-- merged --

Would not mind at all if some body took up the discussion about capture. So I am replying to my own post.
I am not in a really big hurry, but it has been over ten days. Check the post above and help me with some insight.
Thank you,
2many

[latreche34]

You could try your avermedia capture device if you can find drivers for win10, Also you could try your DVD recorder in the stream if you are having dropped frames or audio out of synch, Use S-Video cable not composite, Offcourse you could have already done all that by now while waiting for a response.
Most senior members here use legacy operating systems that's probably why you got no answers.

[2many]

Thanks for that answer in this ghost town of a topic...!
Not sure what legacy operating systems are or how that can effect getting a response.

My original purchase of the avermedia capture device was about 2008. Windows 10 is not supported. IE, I have no drivers now that I switched and am using windows 10. Avermedia now goes by the month/year for subscribers and I wont go that route. Though I was able to download the power director/producer off the one original CD-rom, the other, with the drivers, wont load.

I was previously able to capture with my old computer using windows XP. But my system was over matched for much more than creating a file to use with WMM. And yes, I was getting some dropped frames.

So indeed, I am willing to spring for a new device. A whole package deal.
Questions then are;
1) is the panasonic dmrE95h a suitable pass through? And if so does it need to be in record mode? or just run through it with it on?
2) I have noticed some where that there are some frame rate differences in different capture devices. So which is best at a decent lower end price? $50-$75...Or does the difference in capture frame rate matter much?
3) I was circling around the vc500 or the elgato. But I do not know if either of these product purchases would require a yearly subscription. You can call me old or whatever, but I think that sucks even if it is the way everybody is selling their wares these days.

And yes, I have searched extensively for drivers on-line, (and an education into this). I have found drivers in several different offerings, but am leary of them as the reports are troublesome on other forums as to getting them to work right, or completely. Finally, I have signed on at avermedia, asked some questions and got no response. I am done with them I guess.
In reality, this is simple... If anyone has experience with these let me know. I have been standing by patiently after joining this forum on the 17th... happy new year!
Thanks!
2many

[hodgey]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2many

1) is the panasonic dmrE95h a suitable pass through? And if so does it need to be in record mode? or just run through it with it on?

It may be, don't know much about the older panasonic DVRs and how they compare to the slightly newer ones like the DMR-ES10. It doesn't need to be in a specific mode, you plug the VCR into one of the input ports (use s-video and not composite), and plug the capture card (again with s-video) into one ofthe outputs. It is possible there may be differences between what port is used, I remember reading there was on the american ES10 and ES15 DVRs, not aware of it on any other models. Then you select the correct input port with the remote/buttons. The newer panasonics have some noise-reduction that is generally recommended to be turned off, don't know if this model has it. On my DMR-EH57 there's a "HDD is going into power saving mode" that will pop up after like 15-20 minutes, don't know if that's a thing on older models, but you can just wait for a few seconds for it to disappear.

Once you have a capture card working, you can hook it up and see if you notice a difference between using it and connecting the VCR directly. If it works like later models, there will be much less horizontal wiggle with it in the chain (unless the Ev-S900 has a TBC build in but I don't think they do, not very familiar with these though), and you won't get a ton of dropped frames. If you don't notice any difference, and the DVR simply passes the signal through unaltered, you will have to look for something else to improve things.

As for the VCR, it's more common, at least around here, to use the newer Sony camcorders for capturing Hi8, though they don't support PCM audio, so for that you do need either a VCR or one of the professional cameras that supported it. Don't know too much about the VCRs like the one you have.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2many

2) I have noticed some where that there are some frame rate differences in different capture devices. So which is best at a decent lower end price? $50-$75...Or does the difference in capture frame rate matter much?

Analog SD video (S-video/composite) has a standard frame rate and resolution so there shouldn't be any difference between capture devices for that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2many

3) I was circling around the vc500 or the elgato. But I do not know if either of these product purchases would require a yearly subscription. You can call me old or whatever, but I think that sucks even if it is the way everybody is selling their wares these days.

A subscription is not needed to use capture devices, it's only for the required for some bundled software like Cyberlink, which is usually pretty mediocre anyway. The capture device itself does not require any subscription. Most capture devices will work fine with free applications like Virtualdub, which give a better result than the bundled apps in any case (though may be a bit harder to set up.)

This is the only info I can find about the older versions of the Avermedia dongle which may or may not be the one you got. Looks like that one actually has the same video chip as the well respected ATI 600 (TVP5150AM1), though a different USB chip. Granted, if it does not have drivers for windows 10 then that doesn't help I guess. It's not the same as the current Avermedia EZMaker, which seems to be similar hardware-wise to the VC500 and looks quite different.

[2many]

1) is the panasonic dmrE95h a suitable pass through?

And you said;
It may be, don't know much about the older panasonic DVRs and how they compare to the slightly newer ones like the DMR-ES10. It doesn't need to be in a specific mode, you plug the VCR into one of the input ports (use s-video and not composite), and plug the capture card (again with s-video) into one of the outputs. It is possible there may be differences between what port is used, I remember reading there was on the american ES10 and ES15 DVRs, not aware of it on any other models. Then you select the correct input port with the remote/buttons. The newer panasonics have some noise-reduction that is generally recommended to be turned off, don't know if this model has it...
2many
My dmr e95h has a s-video in Line 1 and line 3... No where in the manual have I found it spoken that there is a noise reduction system or a difference in the two. I am assuming that line in 1+3 are of the same configuration.
My evs-900 video 8 deck does not have TBC, though it is PCM, and it too has s-video in and out.
( I shall be using S-video cables)
Though it is a HI-8 unit, none of my tapes are recorded in HI-8 (my video 8 camcorder is of 1991 vintage)


And you said;
This is the only info I can find about the older versions of the Avermedia dongle which may or may not be the one you got...
2many
That is like mine, but mine may even be older.

I really appreciate your answers. Thank you very much!
Perfect time too, as I was just about to move ahead.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2many

I want to transfer video 8 to my pc for further editing.

Standard workflow needed.
Hi8 camera > external framesync TBC > quality capture card.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2many

I was about to pull the trigger on a vc500 through amazon.

VC500 has both fans and detractors, and appears to be a card with mid-production changes. As if often the case, change isn't good. The early praises may not be valid for latter carsd. I've seen weirdness with VC500, including dark/off levels and AGC. Various threads in the forum have samples of this. For this reason, this is not, and probably never will be, a card that I suggest.

Quote:

Previously, I purchased in the store, the avermedia power directer/power producer.

Terrible software, reduces quality.

Quote:

So as I look for a new capture device that can be used with windows 10

Wni10 is a tablet OS that has been further crippled over time by updates like GDPR. So it can be fiddly to install hardware, especially capture cards. ATI 600 USB can work, the clones install a bit easier. Some of the Pinnacles work, but not all models are good.

Quote:

power directer
So that software is to old to load.

Good riddance.

Quote:

Reading the above thread on this forum, I see that it has been suggested to use a "pass through"... (tbc)?

Passthrough (signal in, processed, signal out) is mostly for tearing errors, and often references ES10/15 specifically. This is not a TBC, but can be TBC(ish). The ES10/15 DVD recorder alone is minimalist, very hit-or-miss, but can be shored up by DVK/5000 units. It does have artifacts, but is a "poor man's TBC", better than nothing.

Quote:

I have a couple panasonic dmrE95h's Will those work?

No. ES10/ES15.

Quote:

Do you need to set the unit to record pause or something like that? (

No.

Quote:

The source player will be a Sony ev-s900 (ntsc) (whatever that means) top of the line home deck for playback.

Not really "top of the line". Functional, but lots of problems compared to just using quality Hi8 camera.

Quote:

I have over 200 video 8 tapes to digitize and sort through.

With that many videos, highly suggested to get a proper workflow. Otherwise you'll just make your own capture experience miserable, lots of grief. If you go the cheap route, I doubt you'll ever finish the task. Even with the best equipment, you'll have some issues with 200 tapes. At least 5-10 of them. With rotten equipment, about half.

Quote:

Can I use my old avermedia dongle?

Unlikely. Aver made lots of junk. Model?

Quote:

What about the elgato unit on amazon for 79 bucks?

Elgato is a problem, much like Tevion, as nothing has model names/numbers to differentiate the hardware. Elgato was mostly crap, with a couple good cards (even a broken clock is correct twice per day!). Assume it's not good. And disregard Amazon reviews, most are left by know-nothings when it comes to video (ie any picture is "good", even if distorted).

Quote:

What about the issue with out of sync audio so many people have with many brands?

Sync issues are almost always dropped frames, which is almost always lack of TBC at fault.

Quote:

Fortunately, I have two ev-s900's and two dmr E95h's which are in great shape so I should be able to pass 200+ tapes through.

Start with the deck, but be prepared to buy a Hi8 camera with TBC (and maybe s-video out). Some D8 decks can work well, too, the ones that don't DV convert.

Quote:

Originally Posted by latreche34

Most senior members here use legacy operating systems that's probably why you got no answers.

WinXP/Win7 is the best OS for video capture.
Win10 is awesome ... on my tablet. I dislike Win7/8 ... for my tablet.
Right tool/OS for the task!

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2many

Thanks for that answer in this ghost town of a topic...!

Just busy.

Quote:

I was previously able to capture with my old computer using windows XP. But my system was over matched for much more than creating a file to use with WMM. And yes, I was getting some dropped frames.

System specs? RAM, CPU, mobo?
XP is fine.
WMM is terrible. Use VirtualDub.
Dropped frames likely lack of TBC.

Quote:

2) I have noticed some where that there are some frame rate differences in different capture devices. So which is best at a decent lower end price? $50-$75...Or does the difference in capture frame rate matter much?

Capture cards are in $75 to $150 range, under if lucky (or broken, or junk). Over if HD stuff not made for SD.

PAL is 25fps
NTSC is 29.97 (only 23.976 for film, which Hi8/Video8 is not)

Quote:

3) I was circling around the vc500 or the elgato. But I do not know if either of these product purchases would require a yearly subscription. You can call me old or whatever, but I think that sucks even if it is the way everybody is selling their wares these days.

Huh? Do not buy a sub for anything for capture. Somebody is suckering buyers. Wherever did you read such an offering?

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2many

Perfect time too, as I was just about to move ahead.

Don't move yet. Patience needed, planning needed, for a smooth project.

[2many]

lordsmurf, Thank you for your detailed answers to all my crazy questions.
I must admit though, that my head is swimming... even drowning under the current of the digital world I am living in. I am not ashamed to say that my knowledge level in this field is not up to par with most on this forum.

I do have a passion with regards to addressing what I feel is a legacy. (compiling 200 video tapes) I do not have the capability to upgrade the components of my workflow. Nor do I understand much of the statements that might be second nature to others. Or how to execute what to others may be the simplest of tasks. I am determined, yet get the feeling that the path I am trying to take, with what I've got, is fruitless. Or ill advised to say the least.

If I had the funds to properly address the suggested upgrades, I'd still have to rely on constant guidance of others such as those on this forum at every step to achieve my goal. What I am saying is most of this is over my head.

Even the questions you have asked of me concerning my "quotes" are not anything I can quickly, fully answer.
But yes, I was recently up graded to a new PC that has windows 10. I'm led to believe this is less than stellar for the task. I recently acquired an adobe CS-4 creative suite and am swimming at every turn with the premiere pro operations to try to work with the more modern digital video I have.
Though I do still have the old PC, a sony viao with windows XP installed, it can barely boot up let alone function as an operating system.
Seems I'm up a creek with out a paddle! Am I a lost cause regarding capture?

I will say again that I thank you, all on this forum for the guidance as I may well be saved from wasting my time.
2many

[traal]

Have you considered recording directly on the DMR-E95H? Then you can use MakeMKV to rip the video files. It's a very easy workflow, the disadvantage is that you won't be able to do any kind of video restoration without significant tradeoffs, but at least everything will be digitized.

[2many]

Quote:

Originally Posted by traal

Have you considered recording directly on the DMR-E95H? Then you can use MakeMKV to rip the video files. It's a very easy workflow, the disadvantage is that you won't be able to do any kind of video restoration without significant trade offs, but at least everything will be digitized.

Tell me more about this method...
I do not know what a MKV is...
I will say that I spent a period of 9 months creating dvd's out of edited video 8 footage with the two dmr e95h's, only to find that in a short time the dvd's were no longer viable. In an information search on the matter, I found that home burned dvd's do not last very long. I was very disappointed.

I do have a videonics video equalizer. Old technology, I know. I have always thought of the results of it as being a bit laughable. But used sparingly, maybe it could be used in my work flow as needed. It has s-video in/out.
For those who do not know what that is, I found a video on youtube;
https://youtu.be/bdmWLlMfA5s
And I am posting some pictures of mine. Though it says it has a patent pending digital video technology, I don't think that means you can get digitized video through the s-video, nor any kind of time base code correction.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by traal

Have you considered recording directly on the DMR-E95H?.

Quality will be lost with that model. Panasonic recorders have ghastly recording quality.

Quote:

Then you can use MakeMKV to rip the video files.

Does MakeMKV even work for DVDs? It was made for Blu-ray.
For DVD extraction, DVD Decrypter in IFO mode is suggested.

Quote:

It's a very easy workflow

VCR > TBC > DVD recorder is indeed easy. But often quality hits (depends on DVD recorder model, generally LSI vs. everything else), that's the trade-off. Really depends on end needs. Archiving for family/self/etc, or just quick-and-dirty watching copy (that may look worse than the original tape).

[traal]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

Does MakeMKV even work for DVDs?

Yes, but it won't backup the whole DVD like it does for Blu-Ray. It only extracts individual video files as .MKV (very similar to .AVI). To backup the whole DVD, use DVD Decrypter like you suggested.