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10-15-2017, 04:31 PM
jwillis84 jwillis84 is offline
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This a new thread since I took a look at installing an ATI All-In-Wonder 1800XL this weekend.

It was a lot of preperation work with an old XP SP3 box that I had, and I learned [so] much about XP I did not know before, and ways of working with it. And this informs and translates over to Windows 7, 8.1 and 10 in many ways.

So its a really beneficial experience.

First, it was a total success.. I mean after preparing the system.

The cdrom that came with it was Catalyst and had MMC 9.10

The downside to the experience is I did learn [even] more how [cooling] is extremely important with the All-In-Wonder video+capture cards versus the TV-Wonder +capture cards.

The video+capture cards combine a firt class gamers video card with a capture card, so the experience is smooth and more trouble free. But managing a [gamers] video card is a totally different experince from a home theater or garden variety fanless video card you might find in a desktop.

Don't be beguiled by the reviews describing how these [gamers] video cards partnered with a capture card run slower, or are less than a normal gamers card. First a gamers video card generates huge amounts of heat and come with enormous heatsinks and fans. They require a special PCI-E power supply connection direct to the Power Supply, and the Power Supply has to be very stable and very large, 450 Watts or more. Fan slow down is almost unheard of.. they tend to run all the time, and only ramp up from a low roar.

Its easy to be seduced by the better and better thermal designs and quieter multicore motherboards we have these days with very high power efficiencies, I forgot a basically thirteen year old card would have none of that.

So second, even today these high-end $500 - $1000 cards for their day, blow the doors off [normal] video cards. Its simply indescribable how fluid and fast normal things like windows and button clicks move. It really gives you pause to think how much Windows short comings is really related to the hardware its run on. A Gamers card can make Windows [feel] like Mac OSX in many ways its so responsive, on a tiny 2 GB memory and 3 GHz dual core.

Windows Video-for-Windows and Direct-X / DirectShow was more of a [model] or [kit] for designing how to create video applications and capture video in a file format. ATI basically had to come along and use [this "kit"] to design and build their applications from scratch.. there was nothing else like it at the time, Microsoft demo programs like Media Encoder and Media Center used the exact same [model "kit"].. but we're all familar with those "demo apps" from Microsoft and not so much ATI's... so we tend to be hyper critical of any deviations from what we already know.

Retro-actively reviewing ATI applications is a little weird.

The only TV-Wonder I have had experience with so far is the [ATI TV Wonder, USB 2.0, n] where the 2.0 means uncompressed "communication" of the video and sound data over USB, and the [n] means I think [ntsc] as opposed to [secam] edition.

Both the ATI 1800XL and the ATI USB 2.0 have the ATI Theater 200 decoder chip and run the same VfW / DirectX applications.

The experience with the use of the applications is very similar.

And obviously, except for the hardware drivers, identical code.

ATI MMC - Multimedia Center (Multi Media Center ?) is the suite of apps (like.. Office 2007)

ATI Catalyst - is the wrapper that goes around the applications, it interrogates the user installing for a plan of action, then automatically carries out the steps to

1. install drivers
2. install requirements
3. install ATI MMC
4. [after] install > reboot the system, repair the system, demo the system

Installing drivers is a mandatory first step.

If the ATI MMC step attempts to install and there is no recognized DirectX Interface for an ATI product, it silently shuts down and backs out any steps it has performed. (With no Error). In a way very "Canadian" its very polite and not offensive at all.

The ATI MMC step has its own "interview" process in which it advertises the [available] applications it can install, and then proceeds to install them.

Windows XP and later generations had a Registry "back up" program with a very nice and "deep" user interface that people outside Microsoft barely noticed and [rarely] used.. but developers use with a passion.

Its name was strangely enough [System Restore].

Partly because of bad branding and bad documentation, end users almost never used it.. and many figured out how to turn it off.

It went a little further than [only registry] backup and restore, it also included [registry file dependencies], so it wasn't only for recovering the registry, but also a registry (that you could use).

Dependencies between [System Restore] backups and the applications on disk could break.. if they didn't involve registry changes.. so you had to understand the difference between a [System Restore] backup and a [File Restore] backup.. and this wasn't explained [at all] by Microsoft.

This was all new in "the day".. ATI did a phenomenal job of understanding what was going on and used the tools available to them. But end users suffered miserably.

The "end user" result was [endless] [System Reinstalls].

.. to be continued

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  #2  
10-15-2017, 05:59 PM
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Yes, Windows itself is why most modern capture cards suck.

The problem with the PCIe card is that ATI MMC 9.1x is required, but that version stripped out many features, including the all-important dropped frame counter. So you never know what's happening on it. The net effect is that ATI MMC is useless, making it a VirtualDub-only card.

Note that ATI CMC also lacks the dropped frame counter, but the ATI 600 USB seems to rarely drop frames, unlike the ATI AIW. An ATI AIW takes some perfecting the environment to remove all (or almost all) dropped frames.

Trivia: Sometimes ATI CMC works on ATI AIW cards, but it's not something I find repeatable on all installs. Another ATI AIW oddity. Conversely, ATI 600 USB supposedly works with the version of ATI MMC 9.15 found on some ATI 600 USB install discs, but I've never seen one. For now, just an unconfirmed rumor. Some things you may come across, and should watch for, if you're digging in drivers.

I'm currently trying to solve my ATI AIW setup issue by frankensteining two cards, ATI for MPEG, and another for VirtualDub. More on that later.

What I recently discovered was that overlay works -- but only with audio playback enabled. It's jerky, but works. Turn off audio, the overlay turns black. This was with the PCI on a new XP SP2 install. The not-sharp overlay, as seen on VirtualDub 1.5, also works with the MS VfW emulation device enabled instead of ATI (both using same hardware) via DirectShow. What was your VirtualDub overlay experience like?

If you could find how to install ATI 8.x, even 9.02, on the PCIe card, we be in business. The 9.1x ATI MMC was built specifically for recording analog TV (which was dumb, considering the digital transition was almost here), as all the stripped features related to analog tape (VHS especially) capturing.

ATI AIW PCIe with MMC 8.7/8/9 or 9.0x in a grail.
ATI AIW PCIe with MMC 8.7/8/9 or 9.0x in Windows 7 x86 is another.
ATI AIW PCIe with MMC 8.7/8/9 or 9.0x in Windows 7 x64 is probably untenable, but the grail or grails!

I'd be satisfied with simply getting non-9.1x MMC installed. Since you're poking around installs, think it's possible?

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10-15-2017, 06:17 PM
jwillis84 jwillis84 is offline
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I'm getting a wide-view of theory and a little bit of practical experience as I go along.

Re-writing the ATI TV Wonder USB 2.0 n setup INF file made me aware of many things I didn't know before.

But mostly that all of the ATI MMC "generations" were basically DirectX bound applications.

The only step that seems to isolate one product from other generations are Interfaces "published" in the registry.

When the ATI MMC starts up it looks for "recognized" ATI Products in the registry, if it doesn't find one, it shuts down.

Its easy enough to write a fake [Null driver] and label it as an official "ATI supported product" that a generation of the MMC will recognize.

After the ATI MMC starts up (allowed because it sees a recognized Null driver) you can then "have your way with it.." basically "misconfigure it" to use any DirectX capture device.

I'm sure licensing would have a fit to see end users do that.. if they were still around.

But (in theory) not much to it.

All that said.. I'm not a full time development shop with an agenda and a schedule.

I'm entertaining myself drifting back and forth between products I've acquire for low cost on ebay.

These cards and devices went for hundreds or thousands of dollars once-upon-a-time, not something I could ever explore when they were mainstream.

ps.

it might be kind of fun.. if horrifying to some ATI people.. to null "identify" an off brand USB capture stick.. and enable the ATI MMC to work with it.. lol .. I am not sure what it would do.. if I am right, it would treat any DirectX capture system the same.. but, you have said ATI MMC is not that important or significant to the work we are trying to do, VHS video capture.

still the ATI 600 USB is a Texas Instruments video decoder partnered with an empia Audio decoder chip, talk about mixed bed fellows.. that's a really weird mix.

ATI seemed to experiment with mass market chips they could get for very low cost as the market matured, and after AMD bought them.. that accelerated. The ATI 550 was probably the last of the in-house development products. All of the 650 and 750 have "signs" they were farmed out to taiwan for conception as well as development.. and the software packages they bundled seem to really reflect that.

Last edited by jwillis84; 10-15-2017 at 06:34 PM.
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10-15-2017, 06:35 PM
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Flash Sideways... thought

A quick thought is plugging two USB capture devices, one by ATI and one by another company into the same workstation at the same time. The ATI presence should be enough to enable the ATI MMC, (it acts like the key in a lock), then the device by another company should appear in the dialog for selecting a capture device. - that's lower effort than writing a null driver.. and it might enable (older) ATI MMC to work with (newer) ATI hardware.. just use the old hardware as the (key) making the ATI TV Wonder USB 2.0n very useful even if it doesn't work.. for enabling the ATI MMC versions across a much wide range.

That does not solve the difficulty getting the older drivers installed.. but I think we have a solid trick.. for that now.

"Don't Fix my Code.. effect" comes to mind.. I apologize to any kind hearted Canadians who might be horrified by these suggestions.
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10-15-2017, 06:47 PM
jwillis84 jwillis84 is offline
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Returning to the 1800XL

There was a Canadian man by the name of Rodney Reynolds who went by the name 3DGamerman from Ontario Canada who produced really good product reviews for a large number of years.

Most of his reviews have been uploaded to YouTube now and he covered most ATI Products at one time or another.

The Review for the 1800XL was especially helpful

#625 - ATI All-in-Wonder X1800XL 256MB PCIE Video Card

He reminds me of Dr Rodney MacKay from Stargate SG-1 and Stargate Atlantis, his accent I have read is due to a familarity with other languages.

The reviews graphics and production quality are quite good, and lasts exactly ten minutes.

Rather than just holding the card, he demonstrates using it himself, takes it apart, and takes close ups of the ports and many features and specs. He's obviously a very professional video production artist.

If the old Computer Chronicles were "re-imagined" for the 1990's (and early 2000's) it might look something like this review.

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10-15-2017, 07:17 PM
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VideoSOAP

One of the best descriptions of VideoSOAP comes from this site, in the middle of an All-In-Wonder 9700 Review article.

AITW 9700 - Capabilities VideoSOAP

VideoSOAP was to put it kindly "sort of" a misuse of the fact that an All-In-Wonder is not only a capture card, but also a Video Card with high performance algorithms in its hardware.

A video image is captured as a sequence of "still images"

A video card renders "still images"

So combining the two features, a video image capture + video image render device

into one, produces a new feature

A video device that can capture, and then take the capture and render a new image on top and replace it in the sequential video stream of images.

Images are basically numbers in a grid that grid is an array of numbers, hence "ATI - Array Technologies"

A graphics rendering program seeks to create a virtual image that appears "real".

A noisy "real" image to VideoSOAP is an unfinished "render" by using its Pixel Shader algorithms it can remove noise, or smooth the "jaggies" and produce something that appears more "real" or "life like". Based on the "entire frame" not only a stream of digital bits, it can apply additional consideration.. even physics to make it more accurate, not only spackling over gaps, but also synthesizing logically inferred missing information. Much like watching a shadow edging round a corner can "infer" a person coming perpendicular and about to cross into the field of view of an observer.

These algorithms can run in hardware or software, but hardware is needed if speed is a problem, just like slow captures can drop frames, slow renders can drop frames.

It all starts with the captured frames however and in theory any capture device can be used to do that, then the software can decide whether the hardware version or the software version is available and perform the VideoSOAP "cleanup".

A "cleanup" is basically treated as a filter pass over an image, and VideoSOAP allows four

The downside is "Uncanny Valley" an over processed video image can begin to look fake or appear more like a cartoon. Which can be used to make video appear like an Aha video from the 80's but .. was rotoscoping ever "Really" a thing?

ATI was deeply involved in innovating in graphics, whether that was in capture or creation whole cloth, they participated in and sponsored many innovation paths in the industry. They were in it for the tech, or the solutions to problems.

After ATI was acquired this central development effort dissipated and was redirected, the capture technology eventually lost the render technology bridge called VideoSOAP to perform "post processing" and "video cleanup" within the software itself.. partly because no-one else was doing this and they were moving in a direction to dumb down or generalize product so they could source common features from other companies mass marketing mainline products.. which did not involve archival capture or clean up.

Rather time shifting and ephemeral PVR types of consumptive devices were main streamed and replaced production level archival features. The emphemeral nature of streaming, or the self imposed limits to "saving a show" on a finite personal hard drive were a logical consumer oriented type of DRM style fullfilling a need the DMCA could never deliver upon.

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10-15-2017, 07:40 PM
jwillis84 jwillis84 is offline
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I think one thing lost on new users and potential "captive artists"

Is recording in "Raw" AVI losslessly to save tape (or disk) space

-[ ironic since we are saving Tape because Tape no longer "saves" .. lol ]-

We are making choices (up front) based on a future event (the capture session) which we have not made, and don't know how it will go.. it could go horribly wrong, the tape could despool, decompose, flake.. or ooze out of the VCR slot like an emissary from Planet Blob.. never to be seen again..

And mostly its a conscious abdication of making "choices" based on the situation.. "I capture all my tapes that way.. so well.. they are all the same" far be it that a capture session went "badly" due to my inexperience or conscious decisions..

.. which begs the question, if you want to put so little effort into it.. why not hire a professional?.. or why do it at all?

.. but that elusive proclamation "it was easy".. to provide bragging rights.. yeah I can understand

"Raw" AVI provides a chance to capture "everything" and do it in "post" -- basically make the best capture possible and then decide how to save space, based on a past event (the capture session) and on its actual merits, correcting for the problems you (now) know about and can intelligently make decisions about, trade-offs.. the dreaded "reconcilition"

In that light "direct to DVD" or MPEG-2 compressed video, or VideoSOAP start not making sense.. they are blindingly saying.. everything will be the same.. do this and "don't bother me".. better yet.. the past is the past.. no use crying over spilt milk.. because you can't go back in time and fix things.. its done, over.. The End.. fini

Better yet.. there is this murky Twilight Zone.. between the economical.. "W're doing it Live!" and economically unfeasible storage rental "Someday".

Lossless Compression

Someone finally figured out.. you can have your cake and eat it too!

Even though Lossless involves capturing every digit of the signal.. somwhere overhead.. circling above the datastream.. the clouds merge and form patterns in the sky.

Data "clusters" together because of an unseen relationship in the image.. so the datastream is "compressible" without loosing a single digit.

Its rather like taking the air out of a tire, without smashing it into little pieces or chopping it up and discarding pieces.

"Letting the Air out".. lets the Raw "AVI" relax a bit and take up less space.

Essentially it lets a little algorithim "program" fly over the datastream and hunt for "repetitions" and "deduplicate" the data stream.. so it actually gets smaller in size and results in long term storage files that are significiantly smaller than the actual original files.

Decompress the datastream whenever you need it all back.. and no data loss at all has occurred.

Voila!

Lossless Compression

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  #8  
10-15-2017, 08:07 PM
jwillis84 jwillis84 is offline
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Did the original ATI - MMC

ATI - Multi Media Center

actually stand for

ATI - Multi Media Card

application

I just noticed it on many of their ATI boxes.. I Wonder.
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  #9  
10-15-2017, 08:33 PM
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Again, what interests me most with this card is the ability to use ATI MMC 8.x or 9.0x. I had also guessed that the MMC installer checks for the ATI AIW version, and fails if it's not in the allowed list.

The PCIe card gave you access to both the HW and "SW" (hybrid) encoding abilities of the card. HW encoding often had some major issues, and the SW was the classic method that gave the card its reputation. I'm guessing that this dual ability could be related to MMC install rejection, as pre-9.1x did not offer such options. However, it's an option I'd never use, and I'd much prefer the ability to install earlier versions.

MMC is meant for one hardware device only. I ran into issue trying to install the AIW USB on a system with AIW PCI. It'd be almost impossible to install AIW PCIe on system with AIW PCI and AGP. I would assume major hardware conflicts. MMC seems to marry whatever device it was install for. So if it was installed for PCI, it'd likely reject on PCIe (especially if both were still present, and I'm not sure which card would take priority by the OS and/or BIOS; probably depends on motherboard).

And anyway, I don't think the install is at issue. I think ATI MMC checks something on startup. If PCIe is detected with 9.0x or lower, it fails with a generic "cannot start" page/prompt. So the actual enemy is that check. It should install either way.

BTW, if you manage to solve some of these issues, I do plan to reward you.

And true, I've long theorized ATI MMC would work with other non-ATI hardware. But something is locked down.

Although I've had my successes over the years (example: hacking/writing firmware for early Pioneer DVD burners), I'm not a programmer by trade, or even by hobby. You have a skill that I don't, and I have knowledge that you don't. So I'm feeding you everything I know, in hopes that you'll see something that will be a game-changer (AIW in Win7, especially x64, or even a minor win like AIW PCIe in XP with MMC 8.x/9.0x).

I saw something interesting in

The ATI MMC nav bar and recording pop-up bar are NOT the same as what you get in MMC 9.1x!!! Due to his horrible quality, I cannot make out what MMC version is being shown in the demo. I wonder if an earlier non-stripped beta of 9.1x, or even plain 9.0x, was usable with the PCIe! The only thing betraying it as 9.1x is the silver-grain overlays when changing channels. I need to download the video, and see if I can determine the version at startup by altering the video contrast.

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10-16-2017, 02:02 AM
jwillis84 jwillis84 is offline
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One final experiment for the day.

I installed the Startech SVID2USB23 I have on the same Windows XP with the ATI 1800XL card installed and working.

As expected.. the ATI MMC 9.10 [did] enumerate and allow selecting the SVID2USB23 tuner and composite or s-video inputs.. it captured the video through the third party device.

.. anticlimactic..

but not entirely a [for sure thing].. its nice to see it proven however.

It is easy to see how using the [same] GUIDs for multiple generations of product in the INF files could make installing multiple ATI hardware devices difficult.. but

Re-writing the INF file for different devices as yet another unique GUID type for their interfaces.. basically differentiating the ATI product GUIDs per product.. should take care of that prolem. Its only a guess however.

x64 is going to be a bear.. but not entirely impossible.. the problem is interesting though.. the problem centers on unsigned driver compatibility.. a VM platform gets around that by cheating

Today we run whole virtual machines with their 32 bit drivers to access a USB device and that works.. I wonder if the same could be done in reverse.. run the 32 bit drivers in a virtual machine and let the host access the device.. a kind of 32 bit virtual device.. I think this is the very first time I have ever even heard anyone, anywhere.. entertain such a device. It would be a poor mans version of WoW16, WoW32 or WoW64.. Windows On Window to support the lower bit version driver on the higher or current 16, 32, 64

.. i will have to sleep on it
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10-16-2017, 02:11 AM
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You got MMC 9.1.0 to see another device?!

How did you change the device from ATI AIW PCIe? I can't even get it to select between AIW PCI and AIW USB. It marries the first card.

That alone would possibly allow the ATI 600 USB to capture via MMC!

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10-17-2017, 03:44 PM
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I'll have to double check when I get home, its either 9.1.0 or 9.10.0

In the tuner setup there is big [Known|Unknown] input select swatch panel

On the Left are the 1800XL and any other enabled Unknown sources exported by DirectX

The SVID2USB23 showed up as one of the Unknowns.. I didn't know which.. its probably missing an INF entry that the AIW depends on for labeling sources.

I blindly picked it out of a list of three.. and it worked just like the 1800XL

It doesn't have a tuner obviously so the Composite and S-Video worked and I hooked up a signal on the Composite.. wasn't much unexpected.

I have an advantage in being new to this setup since I don't expect things not to work.. and just try them to see what happens.

The user interface is old school CDE.. like from Solaris days.. the used, or unabled Inputs are on the Right

Only the 1800XL is automatically on Left

Moving an Unknown from Right to Left (counter intuitive since we read Left > Right) "enables" the Input device as selectable in the TV app
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10-17-2017, 03:55 PM
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Last day I re-worked my cable management in my case, I have an Intel 915GEV motherboard with an InWin case from 2005.

The 1800XL roars rather loudly.

ATI was a Canadian company, and its usually cold .. all year long.. up there (compared to) here in Texas, USA

(winter offically starts here.. when we get one day below 90F.. )

So.. regardless of the ambient temp here in Texas.. the "hair dryer" fan on the GPU of the 1800XL 'roars' all the time.

And I had .. 2005 case fans.. with {grumble} sleeve fan bearings.. they sang like the Crypt Keepers they are

A couple Austrian Noctua's are on the way, and a Zalman ZM-VF1000 universal copper heat sink cooler for the 1800XL

I removed a Renesas USB3.0 card and and extra Intel Pro Ethernet card to clear the (air) space, and moved some drives up in the front access area. Pinned some power and SATA cables with cable ties. This all so the air space in the case is clear from the lower front fan over the cards and thru the upper rear case fan.

All of this is entertaining to me since I never learned the final recommedation from people who were arguing best practices back in the day.. it was mostly Bro-science.. now its better understood and taken seriously.. even positive versus negative pressure.. and air versus water cooling.. and to GPU siphon or not to siphon excess heat.

BTW ATITool should be in everyones back pocket if you have an AIW.. heat management and GPU fan control is important.. forget the Overclocking options.

This will be the first of three machines:

machine #1 ATI All in Wonder - 1800XL (200)

machine #2 ATI TV Wonder - Elite (550)

machine #3 ATI All in Wonder - HD Premium (650) w/daughter card

I am aware of the AGC blow out (or over reacting) problem in the 650, and its an issue I would like to learn more about, its also very Media Center, Sage TV friendly.. and may hold secrets to enabling older hardware to work with newer versions of Windows 7 or 10

The 550 apparently was the first gen to include an MPEG-2 hardware encoder built into the chip, but its quality was sometimes querstionable versus lossless compression capture and post processing. Since it doesn't have a high performance GPU it should run cooler and be more stable. Its partnered with an ATI - ASUS - HD6450 graphics card and an ASUS Xonar DSX sound card

The 200 will of course be the gold standard

I have an ATI All in Wonder 7500 VE (holding in reserve).. its understood its rather low powered compared to any of the other ATI cards, its distractor is the video output is plain VGA and no HDMI option.

All the machines planned have a route to HDMI output.. it makes future proofing the monitors and panels much easier.

The 1800XL has a DVI-I connector

I learned from my 2007 mac mini that DVI-I is forwards compatible with the TDMS signals in HDMI.. I was (shocked) to figure this out and bought a cable on speculation it would work.. and it did. A DVI-I to HDMI cable works flawlessly..

So the 1800XL gives my XP SP3 system a path to HDMI without external video scaling or signal re-working.. just a simple specialty cable from monoprice, amazon or cables2go.

On machine #2 the ATI - ASUS HD6450 has a native HDMI out and was backwards supportable with XP (barely.. the driver install was rather unique) and forward supportable with Win 7 and Win10 (rather well) .. so it has the broadest coverage possible. The Asus HD6450 is a totally (passively) cooled card with a static heatsink.. no fan.. so its silent, and came with 2 GB onboard video memory.. huge win for a simple capture box. It was targeted at the sweltering sweat boxes stuffed under HomeTheater centers.

On machine #3 the ATI HD Premium has a single digital tuner.. so if I want to record over ther air (possible), has MPEG-2 hardware built-in, and came with the simpler (not dingle based) AVIVO inputs and outputs with a specialized optional daughter card.. and was very Windows Vista x64 compatible.

The problem with ATI products has always been they are good, the software though was best effort across a changing landscape of Microsoft development and hardware experimentation with third party chips in some products they did not make.

I enjoy looking at the problems as inceptive to understand history, and current driver problems.

If your trying to factor a cohesive vision of all the release numbers and names, you could do worse than looking at this article

25 Years of Graphics History: A Farewelll to ATI

The article starts in 1985 with the EGA Wonder, and runs through all the major models up through the Radeon HD6870 in 2010 when the brand name was finally laid to rest by AMD.

Last edited by jwillis84; 10-17-2017 at 04:55 PM.
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10-18-2017, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwillis84 View Post
In the tuner setup there is big [Known|Unknown] input select swatch panel
I need a screen cap. I don't see that.

I'm getting aggravated now because I forgot how to force the driver install on Vista.

I may want a copy of your PCIe disc. Not sure which PCIe disc I have, nor am I entirely sure which was the PCIe disc. The collection got mixed when I moved some years back. Guessing my 2006 disc?

What is the date/ID on your disc?

I can't even get XP to work now, much less Vista or 7. Grrr...

Looking forward to you making a how-to guide (with images!!!).

What OS did you install the 1800XL on?

I just tried a new Win7 install, and it never installs the WMD/capture drivers. In Device Manager, it shows the dreaded "NTativrv01" device. I've never found a way to install anything here, even when I could remember how to force the drivers. update: I must be thinking of something else. The T200 stream driver force installed, and VirtualDub sees the card -- and with overlay. Now testing MMC.

Update: ATI MMC 9.1.0.0 refuses to install in Win7. Did you get that to work?

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  #15  
10-20-2017, 12:07 AM
jwillis84 jwillis84 is offline
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The cdrom that came with my ATI Radeon All in Wonder X1800XL card is:

180-V01108-100 (includes ATI MMC 9.10)

To me a driver install on Vista is a combination of

1. turn UAC off, this requires a reboot
2. pre-copy the driver WDM files from the cdrom to C:\Windows\Temp "first"
3. methodically use file explorer to walk the cdrom directories and right-click enable Compatibility XP SP2 for each and every application
4. then run the install program from the cdrom

It should be easier, but I've not been trying to automate any thing.

I've been offline a bit building machines.

I installed the 1800XL on an old copy of Windows XP with SP3

From the launch bar, the top of the little items totetum pole that has a [v/] check mark opens this:

1800XL with Input sources.jpg

The "Unknowns" are in the registry, if you copy their value into their "Name" field then ATI starts listing them in a recognizable fashion.

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Apparently Windows XP "detected" my network TV tuner and its two digital tuners, as well as the SVID2USB23 empia 2861 (weird name by the way, the capture chip is 2860, the 2861 is the audio decoder.. but most ATI stuff seems to do that weird thing.. favoring the audio decoder name over the video)

1800XL with Input sources 3.jpg

I was able to use the Composite and S-Video inputs on the SVID2USB23.. it doesn't have a tuner actually.

I have not tried channel scanning or tuning with the HDHomeRun.. it is in interesting development though since those are "digital" over the air tuners.. and ATI MMC [might, maybe, could] handle the streams. They are just DirectX devices as far as the MMC application is concerned.. it outsources actual tuning to the DirectX subsystem.. I think its called a Microsoft Broadcast Driver Architecture device (a 'BDA').



Last edited by jwillis84; 10-20-2017 at 12:41 AM.
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