Analog transfer to digital, noise artifacts and NeatVideo?

[Denicio]

Hello to all you Video8/Hi8 & VHS folks out there who are looking into to transferring old home movies.

I would consider myself to be a ‘normal’ user of video editing software. Not a full-blown geek who understands everything a NLE can do but knows enough to transfer and clean up video at a basic level.

I have been using Vegas 12 for quite some time and recently discovered Vegas 18 has a ‘denoiser’ plug in. So I took the plunge and did the Vegas upgrade to version 18 so I could give the denoiser (video snow) a try.

Vegas FINALLY looks like its grown up now! The interface longer looks like a cheap Mattel toy to my eyes. This was a good sign. Its sleek and runs like a champ. The denoiser, yeah…not so much. It caused my preview window to nearly turn into an old school slide show as it was super choppy and was burdened with Lag. Not only that…but with its few settings it did very little to improve OLD analog tape quality.

Well, I had heard about Neat Video and gave the demo a try. Launched it, gave it a test run, picked my jaw up off the floor and immediately went to the website and bought the FULL PRO version of the software (a mere 130.00).

Not sure what kind of coding Mojo the Neat Video guys put into the code, but it is downright MAGICAL! And while the interface MAY look intimidating, its one of the easiest plug-ins to use…..and get an INSTANT gratification with STELLAR results.
It makes me want to go back to home movies I transferred and rendered years ago and clean them up too!!! Neat Video may in fact be a Plug-In version of Crack Cocaine! Its that addictive!

Here is a video I cleaned up just last night. I don’t have a before/after shot of it. Just trust me, there was so much Noise (snow) in this video you’d thought it was actually snowing! The video was shot in near dark conditions back around 1986 on a Video8 camera. This was my very first band and very first time ever playing out (so be kind on the comments, ha). I was 17 years old and just KNEW I’d be the next 80’s Rockstar. Fate, would have a very different plan for me…..

I share this to show you the POWER of Neat Video’s denoiser. Now, it does extend render times for even a fast machine like I have. But its worth the wait!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtQSrBeYFDI

[latreche34]

How's the original footage looks like? That's way over processed, It wiped out every detail a VHS video would normally have, Noise reduction is better done with a good VCR with built in TBC/DNR and then later with a good software such as QTGMC.

[Denicio]

Its a Video8 tape. It was insanely dark. When i adjusted the brightness and contrast to get ANYTHING out of it it brought in a blizzard of noise. Sure, NV softened up some things but as of right now i could not be more pleased with the end result for the amount of labor involved.

My system is as follows. Sony TRV608 Svideo out into a LordSmurf approved USB510 & TBC1000 (datavideo).

I saw some posts about the Avisynth stuff. I think what a lot of you Jedi's dont understand is some of us average guys are not gonna go into script writing. I was referred to Avi synth about a week or two ago after digging around i realized that the learning curve for what i want to do is not worth the investment of time. Heck, i only scratch the 1% surface as to what Vegas can do.

I appreciate the advice and i thank you for looking at the video. I may try rendering out 2 or so minutes of the video and posting it here. Its pretty ugly, truth be told and this is a vast improvement for my needs.

[lollo2]

Quote:

I may try rendering out 2 or so minutes of the video and posting it here.

If you do not publish the original video we cannot understand the "magic" of Neat Video...

It will also be useful to have the output of Neat Video before youtube!

[Denicio]

I will try and get this done soon.

As for the 2nd request, not sure how i can provide that info. NV is a plug in within vegas. Are you asking for the final file stats after its rendered by vegas and pre youtube upload?

I'll be happy to provide info if i know what i am looking for.

Disclaimer, i am a recording engineer and music producer (on the side of my day gig). Video editing is a side side gig for. me. SO....if i sound like i dont know what i am talking about, its because i dont!

I could bore you for hours about the merits of Neve Consoles, tube compressors and Neumann microphones. This video stuff is a universe i only tinker in from time to time....and its been a very long time since i edited any video. I just upgraded from Vegas 12 to 18 if that gives you any indication.

[lollo2]

Make it easier, just post the original video, so we can have an idea.

Quote:

Disclaimer...

No need to justify
If we'll succeed helping you to improve your videos, it will be a pleasure ;-)
If not, you already have a solution you like!

[Hushpower]

Denicio, I agree, Neat Video is the greatest thing since sliced bread!

Neat Image does a good job on noise in JPEGs as well.

[timtape]

The audio is dreadful as you say but Video 8 had excellent HiFi audio with a fairly big dynamic range. Possibly what is on the tape is a lot better but the camcorder you are using may be adding the severe distortion and dropping out the bass. What do other well recorded tapes sound like played in that camcorder?

[Denicio]

Here is the same small snipped of video and i have included an image of my Vegas render settings that was used on each video.

Untouched Raw transfer video rendered from Vegas 18
https://youtu.be/N5AJrjtaZjE

Video with Brightness and Contrast blasted in order to see more than the untouched video
https://youtu.be/H5JjrkQ1zkg

Video AFTER Brightness/Contrast adjustments AND with Neat Video Denoiser
https://youtu.be/zS31SpOJIeg

Be interesting to see what y'all think.

[Denicio]

Quote:

Originally Posted by timtape

The audio is dreadful as you say but Video 8 had excellent HiFi audio with a fairly big dynamic range. Possibly what is on the tape is a lot better but the camcorder you are using may be adding the severe distortion and dropping out the bass. What do other well recorded tapes sound like played in that camcorder?

Other tapes sound really good.

We were young rockers playing as loud as our amps would allow so the 1983/84 Video8 camcorder microphone did NOT stand a chance. I used a Vegas compressor to bring the levels up a bit...but even raw you can hear the extreme clipping.

According to the research i did, the TRV608 i recently picked up is a pretty good camera. Its passing audio through on other tapes just fine.

[latreche34]

The original video is better than anything you did to it so far, Little noise in the bright areas is fine because it keeps details and the overall picture's natural look, Over-processing it to look like plastic paintings is not a good idea in my personal opinion, But if you like the video to look that way have at it. By the way the audio is crap, I hope you are not capturing that way.

Lordsmurf being doing this for years I'm pretty sure he will chime in and give you his advice.

[Denicio]

Quote:

Originally Posted by latreche34

The original video is better than anything you did to it so far, Little noise in the bright areas is fine because it keeps details and the overall picture's natural look, Over-processing it to look like plastic paintings is not a good idea in my personal opinion, But if you like the video to look that way have at it. By the way the audio is crap, I hope you are not capturing that way.

Lordsmurf being doing this for years I'm pretty sure he will chime in and give you his advice.

As for the audio, see comments above. This was recorded in 1986 on a Sony Video8 bought in 1984. The band was stupid loud, the parents recording it were next to the band so the camcorder microphone didnt stand a chance.

I found the original too dark for my tastes. I was hoping to see more of us (the band) which is why i went so aggressive on it. Neat Video just came in afterwards to clean up all the noise.

I am open to all suggestions. But as i stated above, i dont have the time or patience to go into script writing for Avisynth. I am not that committed to the cause, if that makes sense.

[timtape]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denicio

Other tapes sound really good.

We were young rockers playing as loud as our amps would allow so the 1983/84 Video8 camcorder microphone did NOT stand a chance. I used a Vegas compressor to bring the levels up a bit...but even raw you can hear the extreme clipping.

According to the research i did, the TRV608 i recently picked up is a pretty good camera. Its passing audio through on other tapes just fine.

The distortion doesn't sound like usual clipping. For example in the drum hit decays. You added compression but overloaded audio IS compressed. Something else is going on there. Not sure if in recording or playback or both.

[latreche34]

Yes the audio is distorted not clipped, Something is going on, try hooking up the camcorder to headphones to confirm.
You don't have to learn scripting, just raise the brightness little bit and capture that way.

[Hushpower]

I tend to agree with Latreche; I like original better.

I think you should be sitting down for when LS comes along!

[timtape]

I havent so far commented on the video, only the audio. Here are some very rough mobile phone still shots of my PC screen but good enough to show some of the problem. It seems you were so focussed on removing the "noise" that you forgot to notice what it did to the images. Look at the images. What detail was in the face and hand of the guitarist - for starters - has been wiped out.

[lollo2]

Quote:

Untouched Raw transfer

This is not the captured files. It has been filtered (deinterlace, unknown manipulations) and then compressed for youtube.
Original capture should be a lossless YUV2 avi file.

However a did a quick experiment on it (the Jedi avisynth gurus you mentioned probably will think is useless :-)

Do not take it seriously, it is a weird flow, just for fun, but a simple script, not optimized at all, with some basic filtering, built in few minutes produced this result:

org_rest.jpg

and a comparison with the (youtube ) Neat Video file:

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Here the script (only 3 lines are important, the rest is cosmetic stuff)

# http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video-restore/11822-analog-transfer-digital.html#post77345

loadPlugin("C:\Users\giuse\Documents\VideoSoft\MPEG\AviSynth\extFilters\ffms2_87bae19\x86\ffms2.dll")

video_org=ffVideoSource("C:\Users\giuse\Desktop\X\org.mp4")

# plugins directory
plugins_dir="C:\Users\giuse\Documents\VideoSoft\MPEG\AviSynth\extFilters\"

	# TemporalDegrain2
Import(plugins_dir + "TemporalDegrain-v2.2.1_modGMa.avsi")
	# RgTools
loadPlugin(plugins_dir + "RgTools-v1.0\x86\RgTools.dll")
	# MaskTools2
loadPlugin(plugins_dir + "masktools2-v2.2.23\x86\masktools2.dll")
	# MVTools
loadPlugin(plugins_dir + "mvtools-2.7.41-with-depans20200430\x86\mvtools2.dll")
	# FFT3DFilter
loadPlugin(plugins_dir + "FFT3dFilter-v2.6\x86\fft3dfilter.dll")
	# FFTW
loadPlugin(plugins_dir + "LoadDll\LoadDll.dll")
loadDll(plugins_dir + "fftw-3.3.5-dll32\libfftw3f-3.dll")

	# LSFmod
Import(plugins_dir + "LSFmod.v1.9.avsi")
	# RgTools
#loadPlugin(plugins_dir + "RgTools-v1.0\x86\RgTools.dll")
	# MaskTools2
#loadPlugin(plugins_dir + "masktools2-v2.2.23\x86\masktools2.dll")

# parameters
# ColorYUV
	cont_y=50
	off_y=25
	off_u=2
	off_v=-2
# Tweak	
	sat=1.2
	cont=1.1
# denoiser
	degrainTR=3
	postFFT=0
	postSigma=1
# sharpener
	ss_x=1.5
	ss_y=1.5

noise_baseclip=video_org.\
			ColorYUV(cont_y=cont_y, off_y=off_y, off_u=off_u, off_v=off_v).\
			Tweak(sat=sat, cont=cont, coring=false, dither=true)

### denoising
denoised=noise_baseclip.TemporalDegrain2(degrainTR=degrainTR, postFFT=postFFT, postSigma=postSigma)
### sharpening
sharpened=denoised.LSFmod(ss_x=1.5, ss_y=1.5, secure=false, Spwr=2, SdmpHi=0, soothe=false, keep=25, edgemaskHQ=true)

return(sharpened)

Many others excellent plugins (and maybe more appropriate) exist in AviSynth to further improve the result (i.e. highlight the red drum on the bottom left). HDRAGC we already mentioned is one of them.

Attached the comparison vith Neat Video. I do not think that the main damages to the NV videos are caused by Neat Video itself but rather from some prior filtering.

[Denicio]

Lollo,

Thanks for taking the time and doing a comparison. I can see the merits of both videos (you may not :-) ) . I suppose i was focusing on the guitar player (red/white stripped pants) when he goes into the dark. I suppose my brain was making the decision that its best to blast the rest of the band to pull out some of the other images from the shadows, so to speak. THAT may in fact have been a poor choice to make. Same goes for the drummer. I set the NV 'noise window' based on the noise off the drum kit. Whats not in this short video is that by doing this....it showed me more of the drummers face. That did come at a cost of blasting out little ole me (i am the guy in the white shirt with the white bass guitar).

Not sure what i should do. The video is published and the 8 people that even care about this video have seen it (laughing while i type). I really DO appreciate all the comments and suggestions.

[lollo2]

Sure! "Artistic" choices cannot be criticized.

You can highlight more the details you like playing with the avisynth filters settings if you wish.

Maybe you can also use the normal/restored video to watch and the NV video to take "photo" snapshots with the highlights you like about people/objects to publish (even if there are better images tools for that)

[dpalomaki]

The primary issue here is whether or not you and the other intended consumers of the video happy with the result. It matters little what I or someone else thinks of the video except perhaps if you are seriously seeking a critique of the video - after all we are not paying for it. And even then comments received need to be weighed against your artistic intent for the video, as well as your budget in time and money. (After all, some people prefer Bud, others Pabst or Coors.)

I sense that your objective was to share that you felt that NV made the video more watchable within an acceptable expenditure of effort by you. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. [Be aware that extolling the virtues of some products and formats (e.g., NV, ADVCs, BM Intensity, DV format) here is a bit like going to Fenway Park and cheering loudly for the Yankees.]

For most people video, especially home video, is content driven - the content (and sound) trump the video quality (pixel peeping) 9 times out of 10.