Workflow (PAL) for VHS-C to digital?

[copyme]

Hello,

Im thinking about stepping my foot in the rabbit hole...

I did convert majority of the tapes like 10 years ago, with the old panasonic VCR and a Terratec usb capture card.
But now when I wanted to do the rest of the tapes, the picture was a mess. Im hoping it's just the VCR and not the actual tapes.
So I found this forum and I have read lots and lots...

So I might redo all the tapes with better hardware. But the question is, what is best for my case?

So Im in a PAL country (europe). I've got about 60 VHS-C tapes of different kinds. (Will attach photos).
Im not sure what mode(?) they are recorded in? SP, LP, EP? They were all recorded with a Panasonic NV-MC6R vhs-c camera.

I've got the old VHS-C adapter (vw-tca7e) that I guess came along with the camera. But it seems a bit tired. It takes a few seconds for it to strech the tape.
Maybe I need to buy another one, or refurb the one I've got?

Will the adapter need to be a SVHS-C adapter? or will it work with just VHS-C adapter?

So the next step. I was thinking about buying a Pinnacle USB 710 from lordsmurf. This seems like an OK card, or else, he wouldn't sell them i guess..

I've checked the VCR buying guide several times, and read comments in the forum. And I was aiming at the panasonic NV-FS200 (From vcrshop.com).
Or would it be better to get a JVC HR-S9600EU for 100eur more?

I've just installed win 7 ultimate SP1 x64 on another computer. Thinking this should be my capture computer, then copy over the files to my main workstation (win 10).

I think I got Virtualdub and Huffyuv "installed" as well.

My budget can't handle a standalone TBC tough.

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[hodgey]

The TBC in the PAL JVC SVHS decks can be a bit hit and miss with camcorder vhsc tapes in my experience (it seems prone to doing this vertical jumping thing if the recording is a bit unstable from e.g the camera moving around.) so of those vcr I would go for the panasonic NV-FS200.

That camcorder seems to have been SP only.

vw-tca7e is a solid adapter, maybe it just needs a new battery or some lubrication/cleaning if it's slow/sluggish.

There are a bunch of different Terratec usb capture dongles with varying hardware. Few capture cards handle direct vcr inputs well in any case especially unstable camcorder recordings. Idk what vcr you used but if it's a mid 90s like it looks like in the background on the picture those are relatively solid so if the output looks messy it's probably more due to lack of some tbc in the chain.

Since it's camcorder tapes and not something with copy protection you could go the route of dvd-recorder passthrough rather than standalone TBC without much issue whether you go with a fancy SVHS vcr or not.

[copyme]

The vcr that we've had like 20 years, and the one I tried play the same tapes with now, is a Panasonic Nv-hd640. Tried several tapes, both VHS and vhs-c with adapter. All videos are terrible, so I guess it's the vcr? Even if I tried to clean it with isopropanol 99%, it's just as bad.

[hodgey]

That looks like a VCR issue yeah, some issue with tape not loading fully or servo or something. (It can happen on recordings too but if they looked normal in the past and you get it on all tapes it's not that.)

[copyme]

Seems like a good DMR-ES10 is harder to find, than buying a good (NV-FS200) from vcrshop...?
And if I could skip to add another hardware, it would be good.

So a pinnacle 710 usb and a panasonic NV-FS200 connected to my computer running win7 x64 and virtualdub, could be good enough setup for my 60 VHS-C with adapter?

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by copyme

Seems like a good DMR-ES10 is harder to find

Yes, this is getting to be a problem, PAL or NTSC. At least PAL has a few more Panasonic ES10/15 type models (aka line TBC passthrough), though ES10 is the strongest of them (better line, same drawbacks). Lots of crap on eBay especially. This is a general trend with all gear. If you have non-eBay marketplaces, check those. But the Facebook/Craigslist-type (classified ads) can actually be worse, so be careful. Do not trust "working" and "tested", nor mere model numbers. Condition matters.

VCRshop/Branko is somewhat like me, and doesn't really care junk items, nor bad condition items.

[Hushpower]

The PAL DMR-EH57 does the same job as the ES-15; a very good wiggle-straightener. The ES-10 is reputedly better, but the 15 and 57 are very good. Remember you don't need the DVD part to be working; all you're doing is passing the video signal through.

[copyme]

I see that vcrshop sells a few DMR-EH57. But i cant find any DMR-ES10/15 on there.

But if I get a DMR-EH57 how good does the VCR need to be? (aka expensive..) It would still need to have s-video out i guess?
The VCR I got now seems to be bad, even after cleaning. And it does not have s-video.

[lordsmurf]

The VCR still need to be quality, and in excellent condition. A non-TBC JVC or Panasonic S-VHS is suggested. You don't want some Funai junk, etc. Neither the "S-" nor the TBC (in some models) is the only reason to own S-VHS decks. It's about the transport, tolerances, build quality, etc. That matters for playback, too.

[copyme]

So will a decent vcr (without tbc) and a dmr-eh57, be as good or worse or better than just a nv-fs200? I think I would like to skip mother hardware that could be a potential problem.

[Hushpower]

Quote:

So will a decent vcr (without tbc) and a dmr-eh57, be as good or worse or better than just a nv-fs200?

My understanding (I don't have a TBCed VCR) is that the ES-10/15/EH-57 will do better than JVC VCR with a TBC, but at the cost of slightly degraded picture eg slightly overblown whites, but still quite acceptable (especially given the probable quality of the tape recording).

So, if the TBC in the VCR can't stabilise the picture because the tape is really bad, then switch it off and use the DVD recorder as passthrough.

At the risk of scaring you, those prices for the EH-57 seem pretty high. I got one here in Australia off Ebay (not much to go wrong with these, I think) for EUR 56, including postage. It might pay to shop around.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by copyme

So will a decent vcr (without tbc) and a dmr-eh57, be as good or worse or better than just a nv-fs200? I think I would like to skip mother hardware that could be a potential problem.

Worse quality.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hushpower

My understanding (I don't have a TBCed VCR) is that the ES-10/15/EH-57 will do better than JVC VCR with a TBC, but at the cost of slightly degraded picture eg slightly overblown whites, but still quite acceptable (especially given the probable quality of the tape recording).

Not better, but different. The ES10/15 type has a strong+crippled line TBC, as welll as quality-reducing issues including wrong luma, posterization, etc. It's multiple issues. That's the trade you make for budget gear, vs. quality gear. If you insist on budget gear, it can be viable, but just understand the issues you'll see, hear, and run into.

Quote:

So, if the TBC in the VCR can't stabilise the picture because the tape is really bad, then switch it off and use the DVD recorder as passthrough.

Correct.

Quote:

At the risk of scaring you, those prices for the EH-57 seem pretty high. I got one here in Australia off Ebay (not much to go wrong with these, I think) for EUR 56, including postage. It might pay to shop around.

Inflation hit video/photo gear at least a year before it hit food and fuel/petrol/gas. The pricing is here to stay, and will only continue to increase. Deflation is not likely. There are multiple aspects that led to gear pricing increases in recent years, it's not a simple issue of greed or whatever some folks think.