vwestlife capture device comparison of USB cards?

[aramkolt]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTOChbbTRgs

Interesting watch if you haven't seen it yet. The main complaint people here will probably have is that a VCR with line TBC wasn't used for the testing which likely would have made most of the other cards perform much better.

Was a little disappointed that the VRD-MC5 wasn't included in the comparison (though I get it's a little different class being a non-direct-to-computer method). That'd be a readily available (used) MPEG2 contender, though does require using burnable DVDs and some extra steps to get it onto a computer. The separate video he did on the MC5 is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VF1-1hwYdKg

I would say it's hard to beat DV or MPEG2 capture (as long as the bitrate is high enough) on a budget if you want a simple/inexpensive setup with decent results. Lossless or ProRes captures are better yet quality-wise, but if the destination is YouTube and you're on a budget, you could do a lot worse compared to modern capture options available. With these, you're less likely to run into audio sync issues or dropped frames with hardware MPEG2 or DV encoders all while still preserving interlacing.

Thoughts?

[lordsmurf]

The DV color loss is very obvious on many of those clips.

I don't agree with his assessment of "USB devices", as USB is fine. The problem is that most cheap junk devices are USB. And he exclusively used the "sold new" junk devices. Quality USB do exist, namely the ATI 600 USB (and clones) and Pinnacle USB that I have here in the marketplace. If those were not quality, I would not use them myself, nor sell to others.

When forced to choose between lossy DV, and bad USB capture cards, then he's 100% correct. But there are options better than both.

Yes, you can do worse. And also much better.

[Aya_Rei]

Why do I feel like this is like computer brands. "Oh my specific Dell laptop sucks, I refuse to buy a Dell branded PC anymore"

Yeah, with that logic if all USB cards sucked then, well we wouldn't be using any. Also heh, looking at the comments guess the device is now $300, if not flat out sold out.

Talk about YouTuber influence, guess the product has now been "scalped"

This is probably still an interesting video, gonna give it a watch

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aya_Rei

Also heh, looking at the comments guess the device is now $300, if not flat out sold out.
Talk about YouTuber influence, guess the product has now been "scalped"

People that whine about "scalpers" are such morons.

These are decades-old devices, and few are available now. The device had an MSRP of at least $350 from what I was reading. So when this video was made, eBay had recyclers/flippers (they know nothing, they don't care) asking pennies on the dollar, and others (who probably do know more the device) asking for closer to MSRP. Well, the cheapest ones sold first (duh!), and now the not-cheapest are left. That's not "scalping", that's just the units still available at a higher asking price. People didn't start finding decades-old devices, and posting them on eBay, for some imaginary "profit". eBay sellers don't scour Youtube like that. That's not how it works.

Whenever anybody cries about "scalpers", they're just mad they didn't get the unusually low price point, and now have to deal with the more-normal price point. But I doubt any of those whiners were prospective buyers at all. Typical social media "bitching for sport".

You see this especially in action figures. For example, anybody buying a $25 figure in store has to sell it for about $40 on eBay to break even. Taxes, fees, shipping, gas, supplies. People say dumb things like "just leave it on the peg for somebody else", not understanding that the figure just isn't selling in that location. Somebody sees a desired figure, puts it on eBay, and both buyer and seller are happy. Those whining about "scalpers" are just a just a peanut gallery. Lots of collectors would rather deal with eBay buyers than the low-balling whiners in groups on Reddit or Facebook.

Quote:

This is probably still an interesting video, gonna give it a watch

vwestlife is "one of us", though he does like his DV devices. I don't always agree with him, but he doesn't often say anything out of line. ("All USB" is a bit close, however. That's not accurate.)

[Aya_Rei]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

vwestlife is "one of us", though he does like his DV devices. I don't always agree with him, but he doesn't often say anything out of line. ("All USB" is a bit close, however. That's not accurate.)

Well gave it a watch, was fine. I mean, I'm glad we can all agree that the Elgato (and USB devices like it) suck ass and "professionals" who use it are doing a major disservice to their customers. Especially if you're charging $30 to $50 bucks.

$1500 for around 40 tapes for Got Memories or Emerald Coast to do? I'm sorry but that is unacceptable.

Anyway fellow user NJRoadFan left a comment talking about the ATI 600 USB, saying he could do a capture himself. Told him a copy of the fireplace tape VWestLife used is up on Ebay for around $36.

I don't care to digitize it with my setup, which I suspect would handle the tape perfectly.

[NJRoadfan]

If vwestlife wants to borrow the ATI 600 USB for comparison testing, he can. I'd rather the tests be replicated with the same tape and VCR anyway. I'd loan out the AVT-8710, but its not functioning at the moment.

[Aya_Rei]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

People that whine about "scalpers" are such morons.

These are decades-old devices, and few are available now. The device had an MSRP of at least $350 from what I was reading. So when this video was made, eBay had recyclers/flippers (they know nothing, they don't care) asking pennies on the dollar, and others (who probably do know more the device) asking for closer to MSRP. Well, the cheapest ones sold first (duh!), and now the not-cheapest are left. That's not "scalping", that's just the units still available at a higher asking price. People didn't start finding decades-old devices, and posting them on eBay, for some imaginary "profit". eBay sellers don't scour Youtube like that. That's not how it works.

Whenever anybody cries about "scalpers", they're just mad they didn't get the unusually low price point,

So scalping is buying an item then is reselling it for a price that is higher than what it usual is. You wanna know what is actually scalped a lot? Gaming GPUs.

So a Nvidia RTX 5050's MSRP (Manufacture Suggested Retail Price) is around $250 and you can find Ebay listings that are around that price.

Though you can find listings that are double the price at $500. When these cards get sold out, the only ones left are the listings that are 2 or 3x above the MSRP.

Like, Aramkolt selling a refurbished JVC S-VHS SR-VS30U for $600 doesn't make the VCR scalped or at a "hyper inflated price" because you can find an archived MSRP for the model at $1400.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aya_Rei

So scalping is buying an item then is reselling it for a price that is higher than what it usual is. You wanna know what is actually scalped a lot? Gaming GPUs.
So a Nvidia

Yep. Buying items new, in bulk, then immediately reselling unreasonably higher, is what "scalping" is. Actual scalping tends to be bot-buying online, then immediately placing the items on eBay/etc. Much of that is automated, and done by crews. It can very much mirror organized crime, and is often perpetrated by the same people. It's not single people with single items. It's not the person buying an extra, then reselling.

Quote:

Like, Aramkolt selling a refurbished JVC S-VHS SR-VS30U ... doesn't make the VCR scalped or at a "hyper inflated price" because you can find an archived MSRP for the model at $1400.

Anybody is perfectly free to buy "tested" and "working" VCRs for cheap, then quickly learn nothing was actually tested nor working. They can DIY fix -- but uh-oh, they have no clue what they're doing. See also why so many completely broken items, total repair botch jobs, are now on eBay as "parts/repair" items.

Refurbishing decks take knowledge, work, experience, parts, supplies, shipping/tax costs, etc. None of that is free. Your typical half-wit social media cheapskate won't understand that, but others do. The "real world" outside social media wants vetted items, they buy quality, and their projects tend to go stunningly well as a result. I've been helping people for 10 years now with such hardware.

BTW, street price on the VS30 deck was actually quite a bit higher, too. I have CDW catalogs from the 2000s, I found one recently. The write-up for the JVC DR-M10S was a real beauty.

[latreche34]

A VCR/Camcorder is definitely an important factor here, One with line TBC and S-Video makes the case 80% of the time, USB/Firewire/SDI/PCI does not really matter as long as the capture is in lossless AVI.

DV devices have been known to be more stable than any other cheap capture device, It is not a discovery. I've used one, the Edirol VMC-1 a decade ago never had a problem even with a low end VCR, People who used the Canopus series also had more success compared to other capture devices which flooded forums with stability complaints.

Whether the DV codec is up to the archival task? I'm not the judge here, for me it's a no no. I think it's an okay format for playback of VHS and other home video formats, but not remotely close for broadcast formats such as uMatic, Betacam and the likes.

I liked that he toasted Gotmemories and the other business which I forgot their name, That was a treat.

[Aya_Rei]

True, I think these USB cards don't have any TBC built into it. Like I'd get wiggling and whatnot if I disabled the TBC built into my VCR or camcorder for example while my Pinnacle 510 captures a video.

So this Sony device has a Line TBC built into it at most it seems, I guess it's the same deal as a Panasonic ES15 DVD Recorder. Is it the best? No. Is it the least worst option? Yes. Is it one of the better options if you're on a very tight budget? Probably yes as well.

Could be better, but you could be doing much worse. Sadly these "professionals" are doing much worse.

[Gary34]

At 22:50 I am surprised that his Pinnacle 710 had a lot of tearing like that compared to other cards.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary34

At 22:50 I am surprised that his Pinnacle 710 had a lot of tearing like that compared to other cards.

Again, versions exist.

Also, in many of these segments, he's blaming the capture cards for the faults of the VCR and source tape. That's not the job of a capture card.

That DV box may have a (Panasonic?) line TBC, but overall it is reducing quality from forced DV compression. Capture cards should not reduce quality, but rather ingest as transparently as possible. This transfer is mediocre quality, not archival.

[Gary34]

Quote:

Again, versions exist.

His Pinnacle sample also looks oversaturated to me. Maybe it is the wrong version.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary34

His Pinnacle sample also looks oversaturated to me. Maybe it is the wrong version.

It's probably heavy chroma artifacts, a mix of wrong card + source tape + low-end VCR.

Also remembering the DV capture is washed out, DV color loss.

[Gary34]

Quote:

low-end VCR.

Good point. It’s not like that Sanyo will display everything completely legal and they made consumer VCRs to be oversaturated so it’s hard to tell if it’s the card with other variables involved.

[Aya_Rei]

Also I think the fireplace tape was recorded in LP mode, so that probably does complicate things

[Gary34]

Quote:

Well gave it a watch, was fine. I mean, I'm glad we can all agree that the Elgato (and USB devices like it) suck ass and "professionals" who use it are doing a major disservice to their customers. Especially if you're charging $30 to $50 bucks.

It’s easy to get an idea of what kind of quality those companies give on your own tapes because a lot of libraries let you use those in there digitizing center for free with there elgato and low end VCR. My local library has a digitizing center. Got memories has a ten tape minimum but if someone wanted to see how bad it is that’s a good way to get an idea on your own tapes.

[Aya_Rei]

Hah, can see the same Espon Scanner I use to have, have since replaced it with a v850. I mean, since they are offering it for free then I'd say there is no harm.

You could just grab some retail tape you don't care about if it gets destroyed.

It's just when you're offering this as a professional service, well people should be expecting you to have high quality standards. Sadly a good chunk of these companies don't care about quality, they just care about quanity and ease of use.

Not all of them operate that way of course, thankfully the local transfer service I know of is way way better than these slop shops as they do use S-VHS VCRs and TBCs, they have also been around since the 80s and have had an online site since the mid 90s.

So I suppose age of the business can play a factor.

[lordsmurf]

V600 is a great scanner.
But the Elgato capture card is a total POS.
Somebody did photo scanner research, but no video capture research.

Remember, Walmart is a business that sells tons of low-quality junk. So some companies are only exist to use us consumers as a profit engine, and care nothing about us. (The irony here is that Sam Walton probably would not recognize Walmart now, as it's almost the antithesis of what he stood for.) So hucksters like LegacyBox, and those Youtubers in strip malls, are not there to give us the best quality possible.

[Gary34]

Quote:

I mean, since they are offering it for free then I'd say there is no harm.

You could just grab some retail tape you don't care about if it gets destroyed.

That gear is expected with a free service but also their VCR has a high probability of being contaminated with mold because the users have nothing invested and are new. Any tape you get out of there you can't put in another VCR without risking it being contaminated by mold.