Quantcast KVCD: Help with the Matrix - digitalFAQ.com Forums [Archives]
  #1  
07-10-2003, 03:38 PM
break break is offline
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Please, is there someone that encoded The Matrix (movie) on one cd?
And what CQ have used?
I post this beacuse ToK give me a CQ too small for that movie...
Thanks
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  #2  
07-10-2003, 04:27 PM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Which are yours settings ? (min/max video bitrate, video resolution, audio bitrate)

What is you avs script ?

What is the CQ tok found ?
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  #3  
07-11-2003, 04:09 AM
break break is offline
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Oooops...
Thanks for the reply, Dialhot.
My setting are:
- bitrate 700/2500 (min soo high for compatibility)
- KVCD 3
- audio 128

AVS script (for DVD):
------------------------
LegalClip()
unfilter(50,50)
GripCrop( 544, 576 )
GripSize(resizer="BicubicResize")
STMedianFilter(8, 32, 0, 0, 8, 32)
temporalsmoother(1,2)
mergechroma(blur(1.50))
mergeluma(blur(0.2))
GripBorders()
letterbox(0,0,20,20)
LegalClip()

And finally, the CQ was too low (I don't remember exactly, but minus than 10).

Thanks in any case.
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  #4  
07-11-2003, 04:36 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by break
My setting are:
- bitrate 700/2500 (min soo high for compatibility)
Ouch ! With a such high min you won't be abble to fit this movie on one CD properly !

I mean that the movie is near 120 min long, so if ALL the movie is encoded at the minimal bitrate, that will generate a file of 630 Mo. Even with a CQ egal to 1 !!!

BTW, these are other things you should also change :

Quote:
- audio 128
Can try with 112 if you use headache to make the mp2

Quote:
GripCrop( 544, 576 )
Too big for a such high action movie ! Give a try to "352*576" (half DVD)

Quote:
GripBorders()
letterbox(0,0,20,20)
Why "Letterbox" after a Gripborders ? It's not necessary.

Quote:
And finally, the CQ was too low (I don't remember exactly, but minus than 10).
Normal : see my first lines.
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  #5  
07-11-2003, 12:44 PM
break break is offline
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Thanks for the prompt reply!

You Wrote:

1) "Ouch ! With a such high min you won't be abble to fit this movie on one CD properly ! I mean that the movie is near 120 min long, so if ALL the movie is encoded at the minimal bitrate, that will generate a file of 630 Mo. Even with a CQ egal to 1 !!! "

OK, now I know the principal reason...

2) "Why "Letterbox" after a Gripborders ? It's not necessary."

I don't use overscan in Gripborders, I prefer overlap left/right with letterbox().
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  #6  
07-11-2003, 03:33 PM
dazedconfused dazedconfused is offline
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Hi break,

If you got a CQ level that was less than 10 for The Matrix, something definetly went wrong! I (along with many others here) have put The Matrix onto 1 disc using the kvcdx3 resolution. The Matrix is a very dark movie, which helps make it very compressible, even though it's pretty long and action-filled in parts (roughly 130minutes with credits cut).

I used 112kbps audio, cut the end credits, and used 300min/2500max kbps with the following script awhile back:

Code:
Mpeg2Source("E:\matrix.d2v")
Telecide()
#Decimate()
LegalClip() 
GripCrop(width=544, height=480, overscan=2 ) 
GripSize(resizer="bicubicresize") 
unfilter(50,50) 
temporalsmoother(1,2) 
mergechroma(blur(1.58)) 
mergeluma(blur(0.2)) 
#DctFilter(1,1,1,1,1,.5,.5,0)
GripBorders() 
LegalClip()
As you can see from the sleightly outdated script above (note: #Decimate), I need to encode @ 29.97fps instead of 23.976fps for KVCDs to play properly on my player. I also did not use STMedian filter for some reason (I think maybe it was still an "experimental" filter back when I did this encode). I also used 2 Blocks Overscan because I do not mind the reduction in height (and it adds a lot of compression for a higher CQ level).

But as you can see I managed to fit it onto one disc using all of the previously mentioned methods (and a now-outdated non-optimal script), and ended up with a CQ of 62.9 with 544x480 resolution @ 29.97fps (I should mention that I also overburn my KVCDs up to ~820MB onto 1 disc).

So even if you are using 700min/2500max (for compatibility reasons) and encoding @ 25fps and 544x576 rez, I would imagine that you should still probably be able to fit The Matrix onto 1 disc at an at least "acceptable" quality using the most current optimal scripts. (but I don't have any experience with PAL conversions, so maybe I'm wrong).

At the very least, you definetly should have gotten a CQ > than 10! Maybe try doing the prediction yourself manually instead of using Tok. Personally, I've found that if you end up with a CQ of ~54 with the x3 template (generally speaking of course since beauty is in the eye of the beholder), the outcome is usually pretty acceptable to me on a standard 30-inch tv. (but CQ is not linear and different sources will look better/worse than others...and peoples' opinions on what is "acceptable" quality will vary). Of course, the higher the CQ, the better!

A few other "tips" to try (only if necessary): lower your Unfilter value to (40,40) or (30,30), use 1 or 2 Blocks Overscan rather than overlap, add DCTFilter(1,1,1,1,1,.5,.5) to your script right before GripBorders(), use bilinearresize instead of bicubic, drop to 480x576 resolution instead of 544x576 if your player supports it (this rez looks better than 352x480/576 to many people), overburn if your burner/media supports it.

If none of this works for you, then at least you can almost always split a movie onto 2 discs @704x480/576 resolution using the current optimal scripts here. Good luck.

-d&c
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  #7  
07-11-2003, 04:10 PM
break break is offline
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Hi dazed&confused,
Thanks very much for all your suggestions.
I think that in this forum there is very much to learn, and all the people here are fantastic! :P
Concerning my problem with the Matrix movie, I have tried to make a new prediction with ToK, lowering min bitrate to the standard 300. Here the result with the new 2.5 avs script, resolution KVCD3 (PAL) for ONE CD:
CQ 62,581!!!

But now, I cannot use it with my Pioneer 444...
I think I have only one solution, encode it on 2 CD (or buy onother DVD player...).
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  #8  
07-11-2003, 04:51 PM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dazed&confused
encoding @ 25fps and 544x576 rez, I would imagine that you should still probably be able to fit The Matrix onto 1 disc at an at least "acceptable" quality using the most current optimal scripts. (but I don't have any experience with PAL conversions, so maybe I'm wrong)
I fear you're wrong D&C but it's not because of PAL. Do the maths : 120 min encoded at a CBR of 700 gives a 630 Mb file. You can't go below whatever the CQ used if the min bitrate is set to 700 !

With a sound encoded at 128 Kps asking for near 100 Mb, you only have 700 Mb for the video.

700-630 = 70 Mb only as margin for encoding the high action sequences of th e movie. And the matrix is everything but a slow movie.
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  #9  
07-11-2003, 06:54 PM
dazedconfused dazedconfused is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by break
Concerning my problem with the Matrix movie, I have tried to make a new prediction with ToK, lowering min bitrate to the standard 300. Here the result with the new 2.5 avs script, resolution KVCD3 (PAL) for ONE CD:
CQ 62,581!!!

But now, I cannot use it with my Pioneer 444...
I think I have only one solution, encode it on 2 CD (or buy onother DVD player...).
@break,

I'm glad I could be of assistance . (well, sort of anyways! ). Too bad it won't play properly on your Pioneer 444 with a minimum of 300kbps. Personally, I HATE splitting a movie onto 2 discs! I just don't like getting up halfway through a movie to change discs...it annoys me. I always settle for a lower resolution encode if/when I must, even though it means it won't look quite as good. (but even @ 352x240, it's still comparable to vhs, so I can live with it...I'm sure some people wouldn't though...to each his own).

Question: Did you also do a new prediction with Tok using 700kbps minimum again? If so, what CQ level did Tok suggest this time around? Higher than 10 I hope! Tok is a bit peculiar sometimes I guess (sort of like an old tv that you have to bang on a couple times every now and then to get the picture to stop rolling ) . Did you also try running a new prediction with a 700kbps-minimum in conjunction with all of the "tips" I rattled off? I'm just curious what final CQ Tok would predict for your PAL source if you used 112audio, 480x576 resolution, 2 Blocks Overscan, lower unfilter value, etc etc.

Or, you may want to try dropping to 352x576 as Dialhot suggested. I'd bet it still wouldn't look too bad at that resolution.


@Dialhot,

Now I see what you're saying about his 700min bitrate. It makes sense. Still, I'm curious to know what CQ Tok would predict if break tried to use every single little trick I mentioned. Sure, it might not be ideal, but maybe, just maybe, it might be just enough to help him squeeze it onto one disc at almost-kvcdx3 quality (480x resolution does look pretty close to 528/544x).

I just thought that maybe if he could overburn his disc, that might buy him up to ~25MB more. 112kbps audio instead of 128 might save him another ~15 to 20MB. Then add in the extra compression he'd gain from using 480x576 instead of 544x resolution, the 2 Blocks Overscan, and the other filter tweaks. I figured maybe it might have been just enough to barely squeeeeeeeeeze his movie onto 1 disc at a still "acceptable" quality, close to kvcdx3 . He also didn't mention if he had cut the end credits off or not, which could save him some space.

Anyways, it's worth a shot. If it still doesn't fit for him, then as you said, 352x576 is an option.

Thanks for the insight . I didn't realize what a big impact raising the minimum bitrate would have. (and I thought I had problems needing to encode @ 29.97fps! )

-d&c

p.s. Break, you really oughtta buy yourself a truly KVCD-compatible player! (me too!). It'd make life easier. I've heard from a few people here that Cyberhome players are very kvcd-compatible, cheap and available in european and u.s. markets.

EDIT: @Break, nevermind with trying out my suggestions. I was bored and decided to get out my Matrix dvd and try it myself. That 700-minimum is a real encode killer!!! I couldn't even fit that movie onto 1 disc at an acceptable quality level using the 352x240 plus template! I think it's definetly time to retire that Pioneer to the bedroom and invest in a new KVCD-friendly player! (or else stick to 2-disc encodes). Dialhot, once again, you were right on the money my friend! Regards.
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  #10  
07-15-2003, 06:40 AM
Avalon Avalon is offline
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I used the normal VCD resolution and CQ 80 with 300 min. and 2000 max.

The Sound was 128 joint Stereo.

I got an 760 MB file in an exelent quality...

My system was PAL

here one screenshot:


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