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  #1  
01-13-2019, 11:07 AM
ELinder ELinder is offline
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Does anyone have a suggestion for where I can find a legitimate source to buy Windows XP Pro SP2? I don't trust E-Bay and even Amazon used marketplace any more. I'm going to be installing it in a VMware Fusion virtual machine on my iMac Pro. I'm assuming I need a valid product key even though the activation servers no longer exist, correct? I assume that restricting the VM and therefore WinXP to not have network access would not be a problem for capturing with Virtualdub or running Avisynth?

Erich
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  #2  
01-16-2019, 11:39 AM
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jwillis84 jwillis84 is offline
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The activation servers do still exist. But you have to generate an activation string on the system and then enter in through the phone IVR and or the link it will send you. That will validate and produce an activation code for the system.

An additional problem however is swapping hard drives frequently, or video cards, memory ect.. will trigger a reactivation request and you may have to do it all over again.

A "Legit" method of obtaining XP SP2 is to find a PC (laptop or desktop) on eBay that was manufacturerd by Dell or HP that (comes with the original OEM recovery discs). Those OEM recovery discs are "bios" activated. That is they were keyed to self-activate by a program between those large vendors and Microsoft, so they never "need to" or "try to" contact the Microsoft Activation servers.

A "few people" will spoof the bios of a Dell recovery disk for a VM by copying a bios (add-on) to the VM bios and then that will self-activate on VM boot up.. but that is not "Legit".

There are many other not "Legit" methods of activation.. but I prefer going the OEM recovery disc path.. in every way.. that is legal and legit. Those recovery discs are keyed to only work on one platform and that specific hardware, they won't work with anything else.. unless you spoof the bios of course.. which I do not do.

That also solves the problem of where to get the installation media, since its part of the recovery media.

If you want to get picky about things like specific Updates installed, or Service Packs, or a "clean", "pure", "antibloatware" system that doesn't have the OEM stuff bundled in them.. then you should be thinking old TechNet media, but you can no longer get that or those activation strings. And the Microsoft MSDN Professional program that grants access to them.. is not "Legit" for use that is not engaged in "Development" work.. its encumbered by the use case requirements of that program.

As for running VirtualDub for capture in VM.. very problematic at best.

First capture is a high bandwidth disk operation, a VM usually has to share access with the disk and nashes with the caches of the host sytem.

Second usually VM capture suggests USB thinking, USB 2.0 was never very well supported on "any" VM host technology and it was strangled where it was supported by host proxy. USB 2.0 at best could handle a compressed MPEG2 stream, but could do a lower "ish" raw capture.. while you can find MPEG2 offboard to onboard over USB2 capture devices. Any huffyuv or lagarith compression ideas.. is going to require raw over USB 2.0 and then will be compressed onboard the computer.. the chances are not good that path will be smooth and clear of hiccups.

I think..

At best a laptop with an OEM recovery disk install of XP is "possible", but it will probably be constrained to one HDD, you really need "two" because the hardware back then was slower and needs to be dedicated, unfragmented and optimized for one purpose.. doing it in a VM shared with your main desktop is pure folly.

Better would be a desktop with an OEM recovery disk install of XP, with an ATI - All in Wonder (9600) capture card (Dell did do these) and two hard drives. This would be optimal. The weak point would be the Power Supplies in these were prone to failure or undersized overloading them to keep the cost of one of these systems down.. re-housing it in a "modern" ATX case with good cooling and ventilation, and a good brand (right sized) modular power supply like Seasonic from NewEgg would probably be best. But caution here too.. some models had wicked motherboard power connectors and could not easily be connected to industry standard power supplies.. your mileage may vary.

But that would be (way overboard) for most people and people like to tinker with whatever they have on hand. It constantly amazes me how far people will go to "justify" re-using a favorite furry trolldoll custom LED keyboard, missing the spacebar.. just.. "'because".

Last edited by jwillis84; 01-16-2019 at 12:11 PM.
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  #3  
01-16-2019, 11:55 AM
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Given that the OS came out in 2001, and it's now 2019, I think worrying about legit is somewhat silly. Aside from some specific uses, like video capture, the OS is entirely useless. You don't dare put an XP machine online.

I still have my MSDN copies of XP Pro, Vista Business, and 7 Pro. I know of no other way to acquire them. I do have licensed discs, but it's PITA to install them. I can do the MSDN, install, and done, no hassles.

I need to brush up on the VM method. I have some old systems as VMs, just in case, and the only ones that have fits are the OS installs from laptops, where the key was tied to that hardware. Every time I move the VM to a new computer, it has issues. And re-activating is easier said than done. If I can avoid that mess, I'm there.

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  #4  
01-16-2019, 01:58 PM
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You can "freeze" the activation once its activated by changing permissions to "read-only" on the wpa.dba file in the c:\windows\system32 location or there abouts.

Or, and you "should", backup the wpa.dba file in case it "Erases" it and tries to re-activate.. that is a royal pain. You can then restore that file if it gets erased without reactivating.

Another thought is using Macrium reflect to "image" the installation to a fast USB SSD stick like the Corsair sticks made of metal.. they are uber fast at backup and can be booted from to both capture and restore an XP or any other Windows install. I use this to "Version" my installs regularly and "recover" if a driver gets installed "sideways" or goes "smelly".
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  #5  
01-20-2019, 10:17 AM
ELinder ELinder is offline
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OK, it took me a couple days to get my ducks in a row, but I now have a copy of WinXP Pro SP2 installed in a VM with VMware Fusion 11 on my iMac Pro. Activation has'n been a problem so far, knock on wood, as it's an MSDN volume license version.

I have abandoned trying to get Windows 10 to work properly under BootCamp. As has been said so many times here, getting it to work for our capture setup purposes is an exercise in futility.

If I can't get WinXP to work under the VM I'll go the laptop route for the capture only and do everything else on my Mac.

It's been very long since I did any Windows stuff, so I do have a few questions.

1: I have Huffyuv and Lagarith codecs installed, they are listed in the Sound and Audio Device Properties Video Codec properties. VDub 1.9.11 also sees the codecs. However, if I try to play a Huffyuv video I downloaded from this site I get an "unsupported codec" message from both Media Player 9 and 6.4. If I take that file into VDub and export it again as Huffyuv, it plays fine in both players. Are there different versions of the Huffyuv codec all of which I need to have installed?

2: To set up the Pinnacle 510 USB what all do I need to install? I have the drivers for Pinnacle Moviebox (510-USB) ver 14.0.0.162 for Win XP installed from http://cdn.pinnaclesys.com/SupportFi...readmeHW10.htm. The device is listed with the proper name under the Device Manager Sound, Video, and Game Controllers. Do I need to download any further software for it, especially something that needs to select which input is active on the 510? It is listed in VDub under devices in capture mode with "Pinnacle 510-USB (Direct Show)" but so far all I get is a black box display in the preview. Not sure yet if it's a configuration problem or a Virtual Machine problem.

3: Are there any sort of benchmark programs I can run in WindowsXP that can give me a better idea of the performance I'm getting inside they VM as compared to a native installation?

Erich
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  #6  
01-20-2019, 10:18 AM
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You can't use capture hardware in VMs.

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  #7  
01-20-2019, 10:21 AM
ELinder ELinder is offline
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As in it's a performance problem or just plain doesn't work?
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  #8  
01-20-2019, 10:32 AM
ELinder ELinder is offline
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Well rats, I just found another post here I hadn't seen before with your comments about I/O timing issues under virtualization.

I guess I'm going to have to go looking at a laptop solution for the capture portion of this project.

Although I still have the mentioned questions about setting up WindosXP please.

Erich
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  #9  
01-20-2019, 11:53 AM
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I can vouch for hp elitebook 2170p, and hp mini 311.

The build quality is cheap plastic and they can get beat to heck, but they also go for very cheap on auction sites.

The mini 311 was dead center on target for XP.

The 2170p has drivers for XP all the way to W7.

I mention these because when going retro you can run into drivers (available?) for various vintages of the OS your planning to run.

Remember its not an issue of "but I want it to serve as my Wife's laptop when I'm not using it" -- its a [special][dedicated][one purpose box] -- don't try to make a square peg fit a round hole.

The advantage of a small plastic laptop is you get a dedicated "tool" you can throw in a laptop bag, back in the back of a closet when your done. Sort of "guiltless" storage when its not being used.

A refurbished, or rehoused desktop from those years.. also needs [dedicated use] but while "better" for capture and driver support for your device and options like network offload, or hot swap icey dock offload, one hard drive at a time, they are big "Hulks" and constant reminders taking up space where a potted plant could be sitting in your room.

Dell and Toshiba also made laptop tanktops.. but they were heat monsters and tended to melt through their shells like T1000s after a little while.

---

As for your DirectX problems with Huffyuv and Lagarith.

Tool up on things to help you manage your DirectX Filters and Filter Merits.

Windows DirectX is a complex beast "kit" of things, it rarely works perfectly.

One great tool is Filmerit which checks for "missing" dll and binaries for DirectX plugins and helps you "clean them up".

Example: Imagine you have five MPEG2 encoder filters available, the top one was part of a software package since uninstalled and its dll and binaries removed, but the registry still says its installed and preferred, it "ranks" it above all the other ones available, so your DirectX Software (VirtualDub) trys to use it and "Crashes" with a wicked error message.. like "memory space unallocated".. what? what's that all about?

Another is "DirectShow Filter Manager" which shows you the "rankings" and where they are, color coding hints at you whether they are installed.. but.. they are so low on the ranking list.. they are effectively disabled.

Just be careful when downloading those, they are so old, and so niche tools that hi-jack sites will host download links and try to commandeer your Browser for Ad-Popups and things.

The Pinnacle "Bender" and "Marvin" capture boards your referring to with the USB 510 are known for working "specifically" with the software they were designed for and not really "in general". I've made them work with GraphEdit but I had to reverse engineer it.. most generic DirectX capture software make major assumptions about the DirectX DirectShow "stack".. the "Slicing" Pinnacle was famous for.. offload pre-encoding.. only works with the Pinnacle software through the out of bandwidth api between the software and the Pinnacle hardware.

Hint: Pinnacle and Avid turned off their Activation Servers when Corel acquired them (well Pinnacle, Avid just backflipped and went back to other knitting and deny ever making that hardware) sooo.. the Pinnacle stuff is really something to be avoided if you can. (And I have a lot of Pinnacle hardware .. recycled for cheap).

Hint: the "take away" is lean on the wisdom of people "who have done this" with the specific hardware they did it with, don't believe for a second that because its "Windows or Microsoft" it will just "work".. 99.99% it will not work. USB is not the best capture system, but if that's your only option, for SD interlaced video, ATI USB 600 (good VirtualDub reported) and Hauppauge USB Live2 (reportedly works).. Pinnacle? hmm.. not sure.. By "forcing" the USB route your going to accept "less than the best" accommodations.. whether you can live with it or not is up to you. (the Major problem is USB 2.0 can barely support full RAW data rates for SD video, its fine for compressed MPEG2 data rates.. But.. not all USB capture devices can compress "on the dongle" before shoving it over the USB connection )

And USB 2.0 was "new" and not as "stable" compared to AGP or PCI, several competing companies made USB 2.0 chipsets and their driver support was buggy and sometimes okay.. sometimes not so okay.. adding to this RAW capture is really pushing the "odds" you'll be able to put together a perfectly stable system that will run for long periods perfectly.

Last edited by jwillis84; 01-20-2019 at 12:48 PM.
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  #10  
01-20-2019, 12:06 PM
ELinder ELinder is offline
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Thanks for those suggestions. Yes, this will be a capture only, no processing, never connected to the internet laptop. I would have no other intended uses for it, which is why I'm not going to go down the build a whole system route.

Erich
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  #11  
01-20-2019, 12:12 PM
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Capture computers needs direct access to capture hardware, and cannot permeate the virtualization layer.

BTW, I have an extra Dell M6800 laptop. 17", 1tb SSHD, tons of RAM, i7, eSATA, USB3, IPS monitor that is calibrated nicely, very cool (no heat issues). I'm downsizing my laptop stash.

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  #12  
05-27-2019, 03:45 PM
Electronics_Overhaul Electronics_Overhaul is offline
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You could try Windows XP Mode which is legal and free through a VM: https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/downlo...-microsoft-si/

To verify authenticity of an ISO or service pack, you could look up their SHA1 or MD5 values. This will let you know if they have been modified or not from a source other than Microsoft. If you look it up, one guy has listed an unofficial SP4 which includes bundled updates after SP3. There’s also a registry tweak you can do to grab updates that ATMs and POS machines got after XP’s end of support. These XP updates continued through April 2019 believe it or not.

I have a few XP machines in possession sitting about and do have the official MSDN XP ISOs and hash values.
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  #13  
06-17-2019, 04:03 PM
Dude111 Dude111 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf
.......You don't dare put an XP machine online.
Any OS is safe my friend online as long as you have it locked down and your browsers security set right

Im running Win98se (My favourite OS)
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  #14  
09-04-2019, 02:01 PM
bobbintb bobbintb is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dude111 View Post
Any OS is safe my friend online as long as you have it locked down and your browsers security set right

Im running Win98se (My favourite OS)
No, you can't just "lock down" Windows XP or 98. There are lots of vulnerabilities that have never been fixed in them since they reached end of life. Although I doubt anyone would waste their time trying to break a Windows 98 machine. If you are using them, keep them offline.
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  #15  
09-04-2019, 02:19 PM
bobbintb bobbintb is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ELinder View Post
Does anyone have a suggestion for where I can find a legitimate source to buy Windows XP Pro SP2? I don't trust E-Bay and even Amazon used marketplace any more. I'm going to be installing it in a VMware Fusion virtual machine on my iMac Pro. I'm assuming I need a valid product key even though the activation servers no longer exist, correct? I assume that restricting the VM and therefore WinXP to not have network access would not be a problem for capturing with Virtualdub or running Avisynth?

Erich
Someone correct me if I am wrong but as I recall, XP didn't use activation servers. I think they started that with Vista. I worked at a university help desk once upon a time and did a lot of OS installs of XP and Vista. We had a volume license and we had to put in a key for XP. Funny side note, I was setting up my XP machine the other day for captures and I still have the XP license key memorized, even though I haven't used it in over 10 years. That's how many times I've installed XP. Anyway, being XP, it was pretty common to not even have a driver for the network card when you first boot and we would already have it activated just using the key. Maybe that's just the pro version but I don't think so. I remember when Vista came out that's when they implemented KMS and we had some issues to work out with that.
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  #16  
09-05-2019, 08:45 AM
ELinder ELinder is offline
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As far as I remember, the volume and developer keys didn't need to phone home to activate.
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  #17  
09-05-2019, 05:21 PM
bobbintb bobbintb is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ELinder View Post
As far as I remember, the volume and developer keys didn't need to phone home to activate.
Maybe that's what it was, the ones that weren't volume license used an activation server, and a phone for backup if you didn't have internet. I do recall there were activation hacks that would calculate the proper response for phone activation and the only reason for phone activation is as a backup.
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