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  #1  
05-31-2011, 08:29 AM
guokamoli guokamoli is offline
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My question is about Taiyo Yuden, Inkjet Printable, Watershield, Dual Layer DVDs.

...do they exist? Where can one who lives in Australia purchase these?
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  #2  
05-31-2011, 11:27 PM
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Alright .... several issues here.

Taiyo Yuden only makes DVD-R, DVD+R and DVD-R DL.
TY does not make DVD-RW, DVD+RW or DVD+R DL media. Not now, not in the past, and probably never will.

You almost never want a DVD-R DL (DVD dash R dual layer disc). The layer break is fixed, and you're required to write all the way to the edge of the disc on the first layer. This can lead to problems both with the content, and with the quality of the burn itself, as the outer edge of media is always the area of most concern. These can use OTP or PTP (a "backwards" writing method). These are only suggested as "data" discs.

DVD+R DL (DVD plus R double layer disc) allow you to set a layer break where desired, and does not require the filling of a layer. DVD+R DL is OTP only, as suggested in the DVD-Video specs. Therefore these are best suited for "video" discs, as well as "data" discs.

When it comes to DVD+R DL media, you should use Verbatim DVD+R DL media. It is the best performing DVD blank, both for single-layer and dual/double-layer use, and again for both reading and writing of the disc. Other manufacturers just don't seem to be able to create problem-free discs like Mitsubishi can do (MCC/MKM makes Verbatim DVD+R DL media, and Verbatim is actually a subsidiary brand of Mitsubishi).

Taiyo Yuden water-resistant (not really water "proof") media inkjet surface is only found on their single-layer DVD-R at this time.

Verbatim has AquaAce water resistant inkjet DVD surfaces, but again, that's only for their DVD-R and DVD+R single layer inkjet discs. That surface is currently not found on any DL blanks.

In fact, the only manufactures currently adding water-resistant surfaces to blanks is Moser Baer (MBI) and Ricoh (sold under Optical Quantum brand), and these DVD+DL blanks have been referred to as "the worst DVD blanks ever" by users online. Users that have demonstrated some degree of knowledge in media, I would add -- it's not feedback from Johnny B. Clueless, as you can expect on Amazon.com or random forum users on other sites. The burns fail, the scans are awful, and the discs sometimes even have visual blemishes. So while DVD+R DL inkjet waterproof type media may exist, it's not something I could ethically suggest, seeing as how it may be coaster-iffic crapola.

So unfortunately, what you want does not exist.

And you're not the first person to have wished for it! There are folks who want DVD+R DL inkjet with water protection, and from a known-good manufacturer. Your niche is simply being ignored by the product makers.

What sort of project were you going to use these discs on, anyway? Very often, we suggest foregoing the disc art, and spending more time on case art, menu art, and the disc audio/video quality itself. The cost of inkjet media, and ink supplies and printer, far exceeds the value of a few seconds typically given to disc art viewing. You get better ROI (return on investment) from the cases, menus and a/v content.

For non-watershield Verbatim DVD+R DL inkjet discs, you're looking at about $2/disc, the average pricing worldwide (North America, Europe, Australia).
To buy these in Australia look at http://www.blankdvdsupermarket.com.a...?prod=100B3044
Or maybe better price at http://shop.techbuy.com.au/p/89511/B...atim/43667.asp

If anybody did ever start to produce a decent DVD+R DL water-protected inkjet disc, I would place a bet on it being FTI (Falcon Tech media). Their DVD+R DL is decent, though not better than Mitsubishi, and they have water resistant surfaces in use. FTI also seems willing to create new products, being a fairly new company, while Verbatim seems to have scaled back a bit (i.e., the cheap Value Series and Life Series media, outsourced from CMC).

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  #3  
06-01-2011, 05:00 AM
guokamoli guokamoli is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by admin View Post
So unfortunately, what you want does not exist.
Aw, heavy. So Mitsubishi manufactured Verbatim DVD+R DLs are the way to go then?

Quote:
And you're not the first person to have wished for it! There are folks who want DVD+R DL inkjet with water protection, and from a known-good manufacturer. Your niche is simply being ignored by the product makers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by admin View Post
What sort of project were you going to use these discs on, anyway?
Yeah...I cannot tell a lie

My ongoing project involves setting up a small 'local' business that can offer professional VHS + Betamax to digital conversion services.

My setup so far includes:
- 1x Panasonic NV-FS200 (fully functional)
- 1x JVC HR-S9600 (untested)
- 1x Panasonic NV-HS1000 (untested)
- 1x Sony SL-HF950 (untested)
- 1x Canopus ADVC110 (brand new)
- 1x AVT-8710 TBC (brand new)
- Over $400 worth of monster cables
- An expensive power filter ($300-$400? Purchase it a while ago for unrelated reasons)
- A Toshiba Qosmio X500 (the X makes it sound cool! )
- A cheap secondary Benq LCD (19"?)
- A canon pixma mg6150 multifunction printer ('this' was going to look after the cd labels for me, prints directly to disc surface)

It was always a bit of a passion of mine to play with and enhance video. I was very hesitant to take a leap into professional VHS conversions though, as I was worried about costs.

At the moment, its all babysteps. Taking 1-2 days to test the living...'daylights' out of each VHS player to see how reliable they are. Purchased Isopropyl alcohol locally, and imported a number of chamois swabs and old "How to keep your VCR alive" booklets . Havent even begun to research the finest dvd covers for my product, create a business name/logo, or even work on a template for the dvd covers (although I have a very vague idea as to what I want the covers to look like )

Quote:
Originally Posted by admin View Post
The cost of inkjet media, and ink supplies and printer, far exceeds the value of a few seconds typically given to disc art viewing.
meh

Quote:
Originally Posted by admin View Post
You get better ROI (return on investment) from the ...menus
Hmm...I was actually contemplating a product that does not have a menu at all. Do you think this is a bad idea?
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  #4  
06-01-2011, 05:59 AM
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Quote:
So Mitsubishi manufactured Verbatim DVD+R DLs are the way to go then?
Yes, ESPECIALLY if this will be for customers. However, in all honesty, due to the rather poor compatibility % of DVD+R DL media in general (less than 75% on a good day), you'd be better off sticking to Verbatim DVD-R (about ~95% compatibility with existing DVD players/recorders). Even DVD+R should be off the table, unless you just want to risk the complaints of "My disc don't work!" and all the vulgarity and condescension that can come with a problem customer. We master to DVD+R, duplicate to DVD-R. All Verbatim. No crap/cheap blanks here! (Even Taiyo Yuden is a bit undeserving of it's reputation online, as the discs do exhibit playback problems more often that Verbatim. That's why Verbatim ranks higher than Taiyo Yuden in our of media reviews.)

Quote:
Yeah...I cannot tell a lie
My ongoing project involves setting up a small 'local' business that can offer professional VHS + Betamax to digital conversion services.
Well, I'm glad you didn't! (Lie, that is.) Some people think they need to hide the fact that they're a video business, video freelancer, studio employee, etc, when seeking our advice. That's simply not the case. If anything, we're for more transparency in the video world! We like our quality competitors, colleagues and peers. (Our venom is saved for imposters.) Advice to a home users and a business user will not be the same.

For starters, consumers need to understand the difference between some random guy in his garage (using equipment bought from the local "big box" consumer store, with the asinine idea that he'll get rich quick converting), and somebody that has invested time and funds into professional gear, understanding what it takes to create a quality product/service worth buying. Same for those already in the field doing sloppy work, or those who may wish to enter the video profession in some capacity.

(Our own web host, EuroVPS, is very much in line with this desire to be transparent, to show customers and competitors alike what it takes to be a worthy operation in the web hosting industry. It's one reason we've chosen EuroVPS as our host for the past 5 years. Just wanted to mention that, as it was a topic we had discussed on-forum earlier this year.)

Quote:
- 1x Panasonic NV-FS200 (fully functional)
- 1x JVC HR-S9600 (untested)
- 1x Panasonic NV-HS1000 (untested)
- 1x Sony SL-HF950 (untested)
- 1x AVT-8710 TBC (brand new)
- An expensive power filter ($300-$400? Purchase it a while ago for unrelated reasons)
This is all very nice. Good job.

Quote:
- 1x Canopus ADVC110 (brand new)
- Over $400 worth of monster cables
- A canon pixma mg6150 multifunction printer ('this' was going to look after the cd labels for me, prints directly to disc surface)
Eh, it'll get the job done.

Quote:
- A Toshiba Qosmio X500 (the X makes it sound cool! )
A computer is a computer, more or less. But good laptops come in handy, especially if you ever progress to doing on-location work. On a laptop, however, you can't do any major color correction work -- the monitors are awful. Beyond awful -- unusable, even. You'll want to always plugin into a external LCD or preview monitor of some kind, for corrective work.

Quote:
- A cheap secondary Benq LCD (19"?)
Mistake. You really should get an IPS type monitor, not the cheap TN type monitors. Look at LG or ViewSonic. That's what is used here, currently. The LG probably looks a wee bit better, though costs a little more. Instead of $100-200/monitor, double up to about $300-400 for a good low-cost IPS display. You'll regret it later, if you don't do it now. TN monitors can really horribly distort gamma and midtones, even with attempts to calibrate.

Quote:
Hmm...I was actually contemplating a product that does not have a menu at all. Do you think this is a bad idea?
No, in fact, it's perfect. Unless a customer submits chapters that mean something, it's rather stupid to just randomly assign labels, and create an arbitrary menu. The tape had no menu, so the DVD doesn't need one either. Put chapter marks at time intervals of 5 minutes, and that's good enough. If somebody wants fancy menus, precise chapter marks, etc, then they can plan for that in advance, submit time references and labels to you, and you can charge a nice fat editing fee for all the time that will take. And it DOES take a lot of time. Most people (the customers) will lose interest as soon as they're told they have to work to make it happen (create timecodes, etc). Liar competitors will describe how they create chapters, thumbnail menus, etc -- but it's just botched junk. I've seen a lot of work from a lot of places in the past decade, and service-created arbitrary menus tend to be worse than no menu at all. Since chapters are arbitrary, too, there's honestly no difference between manually selecting points and setting a time interval. It's not like many people jump around chapters anyway.

Quote:
cost of inkjet media, and ink supplies and printer, far exceeds the value of a few seconds typically given to disc art viewing.
My favorite example of this is John Schneider (aka "Bo Duke" of Dukes of Hazzard, and "Pa Kent" of Smallville). His self-produced movie "Collier & Co: Hot Pursuit" had very nice disc art, run from what appears to be a good pressing company. The case artwork was pretty decent, but it's obvious more effort went into the disc art. The menu was sloppy but effective. The movie itself was rubbish; the video was jerky, poorly encoded, and I think that it was deinterlaced with some mucky method. I've never watched the movie because it gave me a headache after 5 minutes -- it's crap. I wrote to Schneider at his agent's address at the time, and never heard back, which somewhat pissed me off. (Well, that and the fact he basically killed Dukesfest, after taking it away from Nashville. Thanks, John.) The disc was, from what I can tell, created by Westlake Entertainment Group in California, who did a really horrible quality job on it. It's easily one of the 10 worst discs I've ever seen, in terms of the audio/video content, and that includes sloppy homemade work. And trust me, I've seen A LOT of bad work.

Just don't get your priorities mixed up:
Content, disc quality (good blanks, good presses), menu, case, disc art -- IN THAT ORDER!

We only do artwork for press submission. For one-off projects, home movie conversion, seriously, it's not worth it. The costs of ink and printer maintenance, if creating truly professional quality full-color image labels, will destroy profit margins significantly. Again, competitors will tout "labeled DVDs" but it's often using a really awful stretched font, black text on a white label; these people couldn't design a square box with a ruler. We'll give out all project masters on inkjet discs, and the client can print their own art, write on it with a Sharpie marker (OUR SUGGESTION!), write on it with one of those silly "DVD safe" markers (scam items, honestly), or even ruin the disc with sticky labels (which we suggest NOT doing). Tip: Learn calligraphy or comic-style handwriting, and just use that. It's as good as, or better than, most DVD transfer services that print their tacky text (and their logo and info, of course -- UGH!) on a client disc.

Note that we never blemish customer discs with our logos, contact info, etc. These are paid pieces, not our advertising materials. Few companies seem to have much respect for their customers, in this way. In addition to scarring up the disc/case artwork, some go as far as placing logos before/during/after the videos! How horrible, shameless, tacky and amateur. Don't be one of those. If you do a good job, they'll remember who you are without all that destruction.

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  #5  
06-01-2011, 06:04 AM
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Note that this is getting a bit "off-topic" now.
Let's start a new thread to continue the non-Taiyo Yuden portion of this conversation. (Maybe best in Workflows / Project Planning.)

Thanks.

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  #6  
06-01-2011, 06:41 AM
guokamoli guokamoli is offline
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Ah yes, topics...yummy

Will create a new topic to continue this discussion in a bit.


EDIT: Just realised that this may take several seperate topics to continue this discussion. Might need some time to do them all brb

Last edited by guokamoli; 06-01-2011 at 06:44 AM. Reason: Because I am awesome
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