Quantcast JVC HM-DH40000U firewire output directly to computer? - digitalFAQ Forum
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  #1  
10-20-2014, 06:41 PM
Jazzspot Jazzspot is offline
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Hi,
I was going to ask my question to NJRoadfan via a PM, but figured it's best to ask it here. Since the HM-DH40000 has firewire out ports, is it able to output the video and audio streams from a tape to a PC that has a firewire capture card? Of course by using software capable of capturing the video & audio sources.

Thank you!
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  #2  
10-26-2014, 10:57 PM
msgohan msgohan is offline
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Assuming you mean VHS: yes. But keep in mind that since it's from 2003, the LSI Logic MPEG-2 encoder chip is early-generation.
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  #3  
10-27-2014, 06:19 AM
Jazzspot Jazzspot is offline
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Yes, VHS tapes. I'll be receiving the DH4000U tomorrow and will be testing the FW output as well as pass-through effectiveness for non-TBC VCRs, which I read on older posts is possible, without the need for an external TBC. Thanks msgohan!
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  #4  
10-27-2014, 11:24 AM
msgohan msgohan is offline
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I hope you don't have any trouble getting the drivers and software up and running. May as install them today while you're waiting for it to arrive.

Be sure to post samples.
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  #5  
10-27-2014, 08:10 PM
Jazzspot Jazzspot is offline
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https://vimeo.com/110207863 -->Password is 'jvc'

This video was simply a test using the JVC HM-DH40000U as a pass-through from another VCR, via the JVC's rear firewire port to my PC's firewire card, but I did notice a frame drop every 30 seconds or so.
So the route was: multisystem VHS>front composite inputs on the DH40000>out from rear firewire port of the DH40000> in to my PC's firewire card. File type .m2t is created using this method.

The PC used is i7 quad core, Windows 7 Pro, 32GB RAM, 500GB SSD and two 4TB 7200RPM internal hard drives.

I used a VHS tape that I recorded when I was stationed in Turkey in May 1995, using the EP/SLP speed. The tape was played using a multisystem VHS deck which doesn't have TBC. My other VCRs all have TBC (AG-1980, AG-5710, & JVC 7900).

In another other test, I again used the multisystem VHS deck, and the DH40000 as a passthrough. But instead of using the DH40000's rear firewire ports, I used my Canopus 110. So the route was: multisystem VHS>front composite inputs on the DH40000>out from rear composite ports of the DH40000>to the composite ports of the Canopus>out via firewire to my PC's firewire card. When I used this config, there were no dropped frames. File type .avi is created using this method
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  #6  
10-27-2014, 10:43 PM
msgohan msgohan is offline
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Thanks for the effort, but when we say samples we typically mean a direct clip in the original format, attached to the forum or uploaded to a file host. I can't really tell much since Vimeo destroys the interlacing and recompresses. It also appears to be cropped?

You're able to capture from the D-VHS machine with Win7 x64? I assumed it would only work with 32-bit, like the Motorola cable box Firewire capture method.
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  #7  
10-28-2014, 10:34 AM
Jazzspot Jazzspot is offline
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Sorry about that! Yes, my PC specs are correct... Win 7 Pro, 64Bit.
After capturing again this morning from the SLP/EP tape, there are constant dropped frames every 5 seconds or so. Could be due to the condition/age of the tape, 1994/95.
But the capture from a different SLP/EP tape showed no dropped frames after a 1 minute capture.

This was a direct capture from the DH40000U out through the rear firewire port to my PC's firewire card. I didn't use the DH40000U as a pass-through from another VCR deck. See the attached .rar file.


Attached Files
File Type: rar Clip 021.rar (27.02 MB, 17 downloads)

Last edited by Jazzspot; 10-28-2014 at 10:52 AM.
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  #8  
10-28-2014, 12:53 PM
msgohan msgohan is offline
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Great, thank you!

What's the Picture Control set to?

MediaInfo's report is interesting. D-VHS STD speed is supposed to be 14.1Mbps overall, but it says the overall bit rate is 12.4Mbps, with the header reporting the video bitrate as 11.4Mbps even though the max it hits is actually only 9.55Mbps. The GOP structure also appears to be DVD-compliant (IBBP with 15 frames).
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10-28-2014, 01:27 PM
NJRoadfan NJRoadfan is offline
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The JVC DVHS decks use the same drivers as HDV camcorders, which are included with Windows. The drivers used by cable boxes and ATSC tuners are different.
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  #10  
10-28-2014, 01:34 PM
Jazzspot Jazzspot is offline
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I used a regular VHS tape for the capture. After I complete a project that I'm working on, I'll provide the Picture Control settings.
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  #11  
10-28-2014, 08:45 PM
msgohan msgohan is offline
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I know it's a VHS tape, but I thought the bitrate being sent over Firewire was supposed to be set to one of the standard D-VHS modes since it's designed so that you can hook up another D-VHS machine and record the output to tape.
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10-28-2014, 09:16 PM
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The settings used were: V. Calibration=On, Picture Control=Auto, Digital R3=Off, Video Stabilizer=On
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  #13  
02-17-2015, 07:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msgohan View Post
But keep in mind that since it's from 2003, the LSI Logic MPEG-2 encoder chip is early-generation.
That doesn't matter. The chipset was fine. It was early implementation that led to issues -- Apex, Panasonic, LiteOn, etc. The JVC implementation is fine. In fact, JVC is the only manufacturer of hardware that ever truly used it to its best potential.

The DoMiNo chipset (DMN) had only 3-4 variations, and only last about 3-4 years. So one gen per year.

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05-23-2017, 09:41 AM
oldsyd oldsyd is offline
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Hello, I hope this being my first post in this older thread is acceptable. I've been reading as much as I can about transferring from VHS to computer for later authoring and managed to acquire a HM-DH40000U for this task. I worked in video so have experience with tape (Quad, U-Matic, Betamax, 8mm, etc.) but left the industry before digital was really mainstream.

What I'm not understanding is why is using the i.LINK (IEEE 1394 Firewire) output of the HM-DH40000U (or others) not a preferred method for transfer with this deck?

Lordsmurf mentions that the MPEG-2 encoder chip implementation on this JVC unit was fine. And I think the i.LINK connection is only outputting this MPEG encoded video and audio using Firewire as a transport, correct? Wouldn't using WinDV to write this to the computer leave that MPEG data untouched?

But, from what I've read people are saying to not use this interface and instead use S-Video to an external MPEG-2 encoder (ATI AIW, etc.) for best results.

The SLP clip that Jazzspot posted looks OK to my eyes from what I recall SLP looking like in the day. Does anyone have sample clips comparing the output of this deck using S-Video versus Firewire? Shouldn't the component outputs provide better results than S-Video outputs?

Thanks for putting up with these questions, after reading several posts with these keywords I have conflicting info and wanted to find out why. There's a ton of great info here and it's refreshing to see people discussing it who live and breathe video.

Jay
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05-23-2017, 09:43 PM
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The D-VHS units don't track SLP/EP very well. The intention was D-VHS, and VHS and S-VHS were seemingly afterthoughts. It's worse than the 7600+ and 9600+ lineage.

Given past info, I also think it mostly expects D-VHS sources, meaning issues with analog sources (ie, dropped frames). False anti-copy detection can happen.

Finding Firewire inputs can a problem.

Getting the software to cooperate (especially in newer OS) can be a problem. And even when it cooperates, you have no video preview, and are capturing blind.

The pass-through works, but is weaker than the Panasonic DMR-ES10/15 series. I recently re-tested this with my advanced TBC testing procedures.

NJRoadfan discussed some limitations here: Yes, the JVC SR-VD400US can be used as a passthru TBC!

I very much like the idea of LSI compression, and at high bitrates, but not before full-frame TBC. Technically, I guess you could go VCR > external TBC > DVHS deck, but it's not something I had tried.

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  #16  
05-24-2017, 09:54 AM
oldsyd oldsyd is offline
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Thanks for the info. That all makes sense. Almost all my tapes are SP and a good chunk of them were recorded in the studio so hopefully they play well. I have a Syba Firewire card (TI XIO2213B chipset) and if that combo is flaky then I might try downgrading from Windows 7 32-bit to XP. I actually have an installer for POSReady 2009 which is essentially a supported version of XP SP3. I thought WinDV showed video preview? Or are you saying that's a feature that doesn't work in newer OSes?

Either way, I'll share my results once I get everything setup and tested.

Jay
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  #17  
05-25-2017, 01:21 AM
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WinDV is just for DV.

The D-VHS decks output MPEG-2 over iLink/IEEE1394/Firewire communication, using the LSI Logic chipset. Not DV.

You can only use software capable of grabbing the M2TS (MPEG-2 transport streams), and the tools were always buggy and had no preview ability. It makes the already-somewhat-difficult capture process more difficult.

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  #18  
05-25-2017, 10:09 AM
oldsyd oldsyd is offline
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Shoot. My lack of digital video knowledge is finally shining through

After some Googlin', I'm not finding anything that even deals with Firewire MPEG-2 transport streams for Windows, only Mac. I'm guessing maybe some of the older Microsoft video tools (Movie Maker) might do it, but for some reason I think Movie Maker does awful things and should be avoided at all costs.

Was this something that was supported in Microsoft Media Center?
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  #19  
05-25-2017, 10:24 AM
NJRoadfan NJRoadfan is offline
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VLC is handy for viewing DVHS deck output. For capture, HDVSplit works pretty well on Windows 7. The preview must be turned off though as its buggy. I would avoid the scene detection feature as well. I usually capture to one big file when dumping HDV and DVHS footage.
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  #20  
05-25-2017, 04:14 PM
oldsyd oldsyd is offline
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Thanks, searching for these terms was giving me boatloads of false results.
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