Quantcast ATI MMC vs. VirtualDub, Huffyuv? Pinnacle vs ATI? - digitalFAQ Forum
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  #1  
04-06-2015, 09:27 AM
SinghDk SinghDk is offline
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Hello,

I thought a new topic would be in order for all the misc questions I have

My hardware:
  • JVC HR-S9600E(280€, but has a 12 month warranty)
  • ATI AIW X1300
  • ATI AIW X800XL(Soon)
  • Intel Q9550, Asus P5Q-E, 6 gb ram, Windows XP SP3 - ATI drivers from this site. Only used for capture.
  • Pinnacle MovieBox Deluxe(Not in use)

Capture question
  1. Using ATI MMC or Virtual dub, what would be better for capture? In another thread I see his holiness GrandMaster Smurf saying Virtual dub is better(I'm capturing PAL VHS tapes with home movies and VHS-C movies )
  2. Capture in HuffyAV or other? I want to capture home movies in different clips - I doubt I'll do any major editing right now. When I do the movies will most likely not be burned to DVD(I don't see a point as having everything on harddisks is easier.
  3. ATI AIW X800XL vs X1300 - Any difference in quality or chips? From what I can read both are theater 200?
  4. I'm using the X1300 atm., and the 9.16 MMC, but I don't have a option to see frames dropped as suggested in the guide here

Connections and wires
  1. JVC HR-S9600 -> S-VHS out to breakout -> ATI X1300 - See attached picture
  2. JVC HR-S9600 -> Audio R/W out to breakout -> ATI X1300 - See attached picture
  3. Is there anything in terms of cable quality I should considder in this? I haven't bought the cheapest cable, but not the most expensive one either.


Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_20150406_155852.jpg (62.3 KB, 21 downloads)
File Type: jpg IMG_20150406_155830.jpg (78.0 KB, 19 downloads)
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  #2  
04-06-2015, 12:51 PM
SinghDk SinghDk is offline
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Another question popped in.

JVC VCR has the following settings, any i should change?:
  • B.E.S.T - ON
  • Picture Control - Auto(Can be Edit, Soft, Sharp) - I saw a post by Smurf saying Auto is fine, but never use sharp.
  • O.S.D - ON
  • Direct Rec - On
  • Digital 3R - On

Capture questions - Extra
  • I've tried some test capturing with Huffy, but what can I use to play it back on my main computer? VLC doesn't seem to work and neither does Media player classic. I've installed the 64 bit version on my Windows 8.1 machine.
  • For PAL movies, is it 25 FPS ? I don't have to worry about some NTSC thing correct?

Last edited by SinghDk; 04-06-2015 at 01:01 PM.
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  #3  
04-06-2015, 04:19 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SinghDk View Post
My hardware:
......
Pinnacle MovieBox Deluxe(Not in use)
Avoid anything from Pinnacle. You can get better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SinghDk View Post
Using ATI MMC or Virtual dub, what would be better for capture?
VirtualDub.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SinghDk View Post
Capture in HuffyAV or other?
Huffyuv, YUY2 colorspace.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SinghDk View Post
ATI AIW X800XL vs X1300 - Any difference in quality or chips? From what I can read both are theater 200?
They are similar. Make captures with both and check. They will probably look exactly alike. It's good to have a spare, however, in case something goes wrong with one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SinghDk View Post
I'm using the X1300 atm., and the 9.16 MMC, but I don't have a option to see frames dropped as suggested in the guide here
Use Virtualdub. I find it easier to use for capture.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SinghDk View Post
Is there anything in terms of cable quality I should considder in this? I haven't bought the cheapest cable, but not the most expensive one either.
Price is not really a guide. Construction varies, is not very good or durable with the cheapest cables. The cable in your images should suffice. They all give pretty much the same results.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SinghDk View Post
B.E.S.T - ON
No one knows exactly what that setting does. But you want the player to do as little processing as possibe, other than auto tracking and tbc. Try it set ON and OFF, and check the results, but I would leave it OFF. This setting "analyzes the tape for best performance". No one knows what that means.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SinghDk View Post
Picture Control - Auto(Can be Edit, Soft, Sharp) - I saw a post by Smurf saying Auto is fine, but never use sharp.
Opinions differ, but I would prefer EDIT to avoid any unknown processing functions. "Auto" is pretty much the same thing. I always used "EDIT", which transmits the signal as-is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SinghDk View Post
O.S.D - ON
O.S.D. means "On Screen Display". If the player displays characters when you play a tape, turn it off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SinghDk View Post
Digital 3R - On
This is noise reduction. Digital noise reduction is most VCR's was rather primitive, and usually just blurs the image. Try it set "on" and check the results. If you see ghosting or smearing with motion, leave it off. It can't be fixed after you capture.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SinghDk View Post
what can I use to play it back on my main computer? VLC doesn't seem to work and neither does Media player classic.
Those players work with huffyuv on my computers, although some versions of VLC don't know what huffyuv is. If nothing else, Windows Media Player should recognize huffyuv. Huffyuv has to be installed on the computer that plays it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SinghDk View Post
For PAL movies, is it 25 FPS ? I don't have to worry about some NTSC thing correct?
The VCR is a PAL player. PAL VHS plays at 25fps. Why the question about NTSC?

Don't forget to turn on the tbc.

Last edited by sanlyn; 04-06-2015 at 05:03 PM.
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  #4  
04-08-2015, 08:23 AM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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The hardware all seems fine. Remember that Windows XP will only see 4gb of RAM.

Pinnacle makes junk, and always has. Don't use it.

ATI MMC is best for MPEG-2. (And it's really the only choice anyway.) Remember that the MPEG is a hybrid software+hardware encode based on Ligos tech.

VirtualDub is best for AVI -- specifically Huffyuv lossless AVI. There's no reason to use uncompressed, and most anything else is ill-advised formats.

If you must save space, remember that 720x480 MPEG-2 @ 15mbps+ is an option. I actually store my videos this way, and I capture many direct to MPEG-2 with ATI MMC. Only video in need of restoring is captured as AVI. I also enable auto-matting (mask overscan) on ATI MMC for the MPEG-2 captures. For example, old baseball games shot on VHS in the 80s. I want it -- but I'm putting forth that much effort. The primary is kept on HDD, and the BD-R serves as my backup.

All ATI PCI express cards are the same. Only the graphics differ, and that's not important.

Frame drop info may be one of the reasons that AGP/PCI cards are suggested. I just really cannot remember everything. We need to get that site glossary/wiki online soon. (It's almost ready.) Things of this nature will end up there. I'm about to build another system, using spare parts, and it includes a PCI-e ATI card. I'll be testing it then.

You need a TBC between the VCR and capture card.

I don't buy the most expensive, or cheapest, cables either.

I often leaves B.E.S.T off. It's not best. Pun intended.

OSD needs to be off.

The "3R" should be turned off. Nobody really knows what it's supposed to do, and it mostly just makes VHS tapes grainier. It's not actually an NR, but a "detail enhancer" of some sort. And it sucks.

VLC never works with Hyffuv. However, MPC should. You can always install the ffmpeg library, and it'll use that for playback with MPC.

PAL is 25fps.
NTSC is always 29.97 for VHS.

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  #5  
04-19-2015, 04:02 AM
SinghDk SinghDk is offline
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Thanks for the answers to both of you. Some more popped up
  1. Should I still get a external TBC, when I'm only transferring home movies which don't have any protection?
  2. I've attached images of settings above, does everything look like it should?
  3. What is hifi rec?
  4. HuffyUV vs uncompressed - Does Huffy give me anything other than smaller file size?
  5. Should PAL be captured in 720x576 or 720x480?
  6. How do I save the capture settings in Virtual dub? On google everything referes to posts from 2001/2002, to options that aren't there anymore.


Attached Images
File Type: png Menu1.PNG (24.2 KB, 7 downloads)
File Type: png Menu2.PNG (24.7 KB, 6 downloads)
File Type: png Hifi-rec.PNG (24.1 KB, 8 downloads)
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  #6  
04-19-2015, 11:54 PM
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TBC is not for (copy) protection. CP (anti-copy) was an artificial video error, which is why a TBC removes them. What you're worried about are natural video errors. You need an external TBC for capturing analog tapes. The end.

"HiFi Rec" (record) is an audio setting on JVC S-VHS VCRs.

Huffyuv is about 35gb/hour.
Uncompressed 4:2:2 YUY2 is 75gb/hour.

PAL is x576. NTSC is x480.

What posts where? There's really nothing to save, capture-wise, in VirtualDub. It should remember the compression.

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  #7  
04-22-2015, 04:14 PM
SinghDk SinghDk is offline
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Which external TBC can you recommend? If you know of ones you can buy in the EU that'd be great.
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  #8  
04-24-2015, 11:48 AM
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Datavideo TBC-100 (pal,ntsc) see here
CTB-100 TBC see here
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  #9  
04-26-2015, 01:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by themaster1 View Post
Datavideo TBC-100 (pal,ntsc) see here
CTB-100 TBC see here
The DataVideo is best.
The CTB is the Cypress (same as AVT-8710) and has had unreliable chipsets since 2011. Some work, some don't.
The older AVT green-colored unit are the only ones that work flawlessly.

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  #10  
05-01-2015, 05:02 AM
SinghDk SinghDk is offline
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Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
The DataVideo is best.
The CTB is the Cypress (same as AVT-8710) and has had unreliable chipsets since 2011. Some work, some don't.
The older AVT green-colored unit are the only ones that work flawlessly.
In this post you refer that only the old ones work flawlessly, but I can't seem to find one of the older ones.

For a new purchase I can only get the all black one from Amazon UK (I live in Denmark). Buying from new the US would be a huge risk if I'm not sure they work 100% perfect, as returns will be costly and difficult, not to mention the taxes and import duties.

Been going crazy for the last week trying to find TBC's in the EU, but can't really find any new units and none used(At least not where they are sure it works)

EDIT
I always seem to forget the actual question - Is there a alternative to buying the black version ? If not, should I just buy that and test to see if it works?
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  #11  
05-01-2015, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SinghDk View Post
Is there a alternative to buying the black version ? If not, should I just buy that and test to see if it works?
Not really, no. Some years ago, I had the chance to buy an extra green unit, and I still kick myself that I passed on it. It was a forum member here. and he sold it to another member here. The only way to buy those is used, from somebody selling their gear. But good luck with that.

Either buy/test the black unit, or use a DataVideo TBC-1000.

Just FYI, PAL units work with a DataVideo TBC-100, and probably do with TBC-1000 as well.

This price is fair ($415 shipped): http://www.ebay.com/itm/DATAVIDEO-TB...item3f4b9e7f15

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  #12  
05-02-2015, 04:07 AM
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This is the old green one that is often referred to:


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