Quantcast ATI Radeon 9600XT - video capture distorted, interference? - digitalFAQ Forum
Go Back    Forum > Digital Video > Video Project Help > Capture, Record, Transfer

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1  
05-28-2015, 07:15 PM
Towncivilian Towncivilian is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 43
Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
Hello,

I am having a very odd issue attempting to use VirtualDub or ATI MMC to capture a tape. Here is a photo of what I get as a preview in VDub and what I see on a monitor that has an S-Video input: https://i.imgur.com/nJIH8YE.jpg
Apologies for the terribly lit, blurry photo, but it illustrates the point well enough I think. I get a similar preview screen in MMC.

My workflow is:

Philips VR1000 S-VHS VCR, using rear S-Video output -> DataVideo TBC-1000 -> ATI Radeon 9600XT (ATI MMC 8.8 installed using the 180-V01084-100 installation ISO on Windows XP SP2 32-bit), using purple box adapter
Other general computer specs: P4 EE 3.2ghz w/ HT, 1.5GB DDR-400 RAM, 80GB Velociraptor 10k RPM + 500GB WD 7200rpm, Creative SB X-Fi

The preview image is the same when directly connected to the card (sans TBC), and with the VCR's TBC on or off. Attempting to capture yields one frame similar to the preview screen, then a frozen frame for the rest of the capture. I have swapped cables to no avail. All cables are new. I get the same issue when playing an NTSC "store bought" tape of "Shiloh".

I also have a JVC HR-S7600U I can try as well.

Ideas? Do I have one of those 9600XTs with the dreaded interference issues? Do I just have some setting incorrect somewhere, or a bad breakout cable from the card?

-- merged --

It seems I may be dealing with two separate issues here:

1) the TBC seems to drop color altogether when used with S-Video; I have not yet tested composite. VCR -> TBC -> monitor = no color. VCR -> monitor = color.
2) VCR -> 9600XT S-Video input = no color also. The distorted preview does not seem to occur any longer; I see what is displayed on the monitor exactly, more or less. There is also no color with VCR -> TBC -> 9600XT, as stated above.

The only combination that results in color is the VCR directly connected to the monitor. Any other combination results in dropped color. I even pulled the SB X-Fi sound card in case that was somehow causing problems with the video card.

I have verified all three S-Video cables as operational by testing each connected directly from the VCR to the monitor. I have tested each combination with both available VCRs and several VHS tapes.

I get color in the menu (blue background), and when hitting play, color for just a couple frames. ????

So, it seems I may have a defective card *and* a defective TBC? The TBC does not seem to have any configurable parameters, or am I incorrect?

I see a 9000 AIW on eBay for really cheap (<$10 shipped). I think I'll grab it just in case my card turns out defective. I have not read of any reports here that plain jane 9000s are affected by any sort of potential interference issues. If I still can't get a clean picture into the capture card directly from the VCR with the replacement card, I'll buy a new purple breakout box and see where that gets me.
Reply With Quote
Someday, 12:01 PM
admin's Avatar
Ads / Sponsors
 
Join Date: ∞
Posts: 42
Thanks: ∞
Thanked 42 Times in 42 Posts
  #2  
06-02-2015, 11:42 AM
lordsmurf's Avatar
lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
Site Staff | Video
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 11,685
Thanked 2,138 Times in 1,839 Posts
That first image looks like a PAL/NTSC mismatch. But I'm not sure why it is showing here.
Test the composite.

- Did my advice help you? Then become a Premium Member and support this site.
- For sale in the marketplace: TBCs, workflows, capture cards, VCRs
Reply With Quote
  #3  
06-04-2015, 01:53 PM
Towncivilian Towncivilian is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 43
Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
Yes, the photo exhibited PAL/NTSC mismatch. Choosing the correct input standard fixed that oddity, but still no color.

A low-end JVC HR-S3912U S-VHS deck with composite piped directly to the 9600XT yields color. S-Video passed through the TBC-1000 to the 9600XT and my Dell monitor's S-Video yields color too!

Why do my higher-end PAL S-VHS decks lose color when going through the TBC / to the 9600XT? Again, only when either deck is connected directly to the Dell monitor via S-Video do I get color.
These decks do not have native composite out (only BNC / S-Video; front panel composite is only an input), so I had to try the lower end deck I had on hand.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
06-06-2015, 04:29 AM
rocko's Avatar
rocko rocko is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 463
Thanked 14 Times in 14 Posts
Hello Towncivilian, I'm the one who posted several times about possible defective Radio Frequency Interference (RFI) Shielding on my ATI 9600XT Card, But was nothing like your problem. Your card is probably fine, RFI can be generated by any electrical/electronic devices near or far, then show up as static, faint/heavy or wavy,moving weird lines/patterns on top of an otherwise perfect/in-perfect video/capture/preview image, often mimicking the in-perfect VHS video noise we are trying to filter out, thus driving one crazy!!..(My problem wound up coming from VCR to TBC box input side..9600XT is just fine, but I was blaming it for a while, until I had time to do more A-B process of elimination testing.

Luckily, My E-Bay purchased, 9600XT came with all the stuff..(Input Block, Output Breakout Cable, AIW MMC 8.8.0 Disc, Instruction Book, and "Quick" Hook-up guide. Then after reading about how tricky it was to properly installl the ATI software, I had my local PC Guy do that (To my Used Gateway XP PC) ...I use the VGA 1 and VGA 2 outputs from breakout cable, to 2 Viewsonic VGA monitors 1&2 respectively...Also New Viewsonic drivers installed to XP Capture PC. And I noticed the ATI Software is Still Pretty Smart! When I click ATI/Settings/Display Settings,The Header says "ViewSonic VP2365 SERIES and RADEON... I noticed the ATI S-Video out is tied to ATI VGA 1(?)...If you have 2 monitors tied to VGA 1, AND S-Video on ATI Breakout, It might be confusing your PC and/or ATI software?

Make sure your ATI Breakout cable is Attached firmly!..I noticed my Thumbscrew was broken on right sideIMG_0936 (640x360).jpg


Reply With Quote
  #5  
06-06-2015, 08:23 AM
Towncivilian Towncivilian is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 43
Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
The purple breakout box does not have any thumbscrews. The "box" breakout with all of the VGA / S-Video / etc outputs is screwed on very securely and the pins do not seem damaged in any way on the card side.

I am trying to test with an ATI AIW 9000 to rule out the card as the problem, but am having trouble getting any drivers to install; see my post here.

-- merged --

Got a new old stock purple breakout box. Playing an NTSC tape, I get color with the standard set to PAL-60, but with some extra black at the bottom. No color with TBC in between.
PAL-B and various other letter standards work when playing a PAL tape, no extra height (obviously). PAL tape routed thru TBC-1000 to capture card set at PAL-B results in color, woohoo!
What is the difference with the various letter suffixes for PAL?

So, no color with NTSC -> TBC -> 9600XT at any standard, but oh well... I guess I'll have to find an actual NTSC deck for that, huh?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
06-22-2015, 06:55 AM
rocko's Avatar
rocko rocko is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 463
Thanked 14 Times in 14 Posts
I'm no expert in Computer or Video, but have been a member for a long time..And don't know how experienced you are. I too was stuck in the initial set-up/troubleshooting phase of this thing for a while..with long,long periods of giving up/going back, and doing other things. I have printed and read the Guides over and over and over again. One thing I do Know: NTSC and PAL are Two different animals?!..So start from square one...Are your Playback VCR's (Purchased) Overseas European (PAL), or North American (NTSC)? (That might make a difference?) Then make sure your ATI card is installed in a DEDICATED (OFFLINE) Windows XP PC, That way you don't have to worry about up-dates/security/viruses and all. Then connect XP PC to ONE monitor (Preferably using ATI VGA1) and Nothing Else in the capture chain. Set everything for NTSC if playing an NTSC tape, then test capture with a HOME-MADE VHS tape if possible. (A commercial made VHS might have Copy-Guard and give you un-wanted problems for testing)..Even then, the Capture MPEG using ATI Card Guide mentions the fact that some home-made tapes are treated as a copy guarded tape by ATI card/software, and there is a fix for that mentioned..Also look at the guide for "Suggested Playback Hardware" in the guides, and see if your JVC Matches one of those..most have a built in TBC.

Last edited by rocko; 06-22-2015 at 07:17 AM. Reason: add
Reply With Quote
  #7  
06-22-2015, 07:43 AM
lordsmurf's Avatar
lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
Site Staff | Video
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 11,685
Thanked 2,138 Times in 1,839 Posts
It still looks like a PAL/NTSC issue somewhere.
The TBC-1000 is PAL compatible. So is the TBC-100 at the heart of the TBC-1000. I use one all the time, with no PAL issues.

As suggested, the "process of elimination" method is needed.
VCR > TV
VCR > ATI > TV
VCR > TBC > ATI > TV

Be sure to NOT use the ATI tuner. Those are PAL or NTSC specific. The composite and s-video is not specific, and works for both.

PAL-60 is neither PAL nor NTSC, so it must be captured as such. However, I don't think the TBC-100 understands PAL-60.

- Did my advice help you? Then become a Premium Member and support this site.
- For sale in the marketplace: TBCs, workflows, capture cards, VCRs
Reply With Quote
  #8  
06-22-2015, 08:04 AM
Towncivilian Towncivilian is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 43
Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
I think the issue is that I am trying to use my PAL deck to play NTSC tapes (which results in usable picture), but this signal when passed through the TBC drops color. The only way I can get the capture card to recognize NTSC in color played back this way is if I change the format to PAL-60; this is with the VCR connected directly to the capture card.

PAL tape -> VCR -> TBC -> ATI works just fine now. I've captured a couple tapes so far already.

I believe I just need to purchase an actual NTSC SVHS VCR to work with NTSC tapes. I've confirmed that a low-end NTSC SVHS VCR works when passed through the TBC using S-Video already.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
06-22-2015, 10:38 AM
rocko's Avatar
rocko rocko is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 463
Thanked 14 Times in 14 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Towncivilian View Post
I think the issue is that I am trying to use my PAL deck to play NTSC tapes (which results in usable picture), but this signal when passed through the TBC drops color. The only way I can get the capture card to recognize NTSC in color played back this way is if I change the format to PAL-60; this is with the VCR connected directly to the capture card.

PAL tape -> VCR -> TBC -> ATI works just fine now. I've captured a couple tapes so far already.

I believe I just need to purchase an actual NTSC SVHS VCR to work with NTSC tapes. I've confirmed that a low-end NTSC SVHS VCR works when passed through the TBC using S-Video already.
Totally confused now Are you using a European Purchased VHS deck that is PAL/NTSC to play NTSC tapes?..or a North American Purchased (NTSC) deck to play PAL Tapes?..Did you purchase your VHS decks(s) in Europe?....(I have my own problems to post,but couldn't help replying to this one!)...The best way to get help with your question might be to focus on NTSC or PAL for now?..Not both? and then post exactly what your equipment is,what format your tapes are, and what your goals are(ME TOO!)

Last edited by rocko; 06-22-2015 at 10:53 AM. Reason: add
Reply With Quote
  #10  
06-22-2015, 10:41 AM
lordsmurf's Avatar
lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
Site Staff | Video
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 11,685
Thanked 2,138 Times in 1,839 Posts
Yeah, it's a PAL/NTSC problem shown here.
You need a NTSC deck for NTSC tapes, and PAL deck for PAL tapes. TBCs hate the quasi signals.

- Did my advice help you? Then become a Premium Member and support this site.
- For sale in the marketplace: TBCs, workflows, capture cards, VCRs
Reply With Quote
  #11  
06-22-2015, 12:16 PM
Towncivilian Towncivilian is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 43
Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
Yeah, it's a PAL/NTSC problem shown here.
You need a NTSC deck for NTSC tapes, and PAL deck for PAL tapes. TBCs hate the quasi signals.
Yes, this is the answer. My previous troubles seem to have been from simply not having the correct format selected when capturing a PAL tape.

The JVC HR-S7600U I bought from Germany, and the Philips VR1000 I actually bought within my own state. I made a mistake and now I don't need both. I don't know which is better, and it seems that nobody knows which model JVC "crosses over" with the Philips. Both seem approximately the same in terms of features, but the JVC has a smaller physical footprint.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
06-22-2015, 12:22 PM
rocko's Avatar
rocko rocko is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 463
Thanked 14 Times in 14 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
Yeah, it's a PAL/NTSC problem shown here.
You need a NTSC deck for NTSC tapes, and PAL deck for PAL tapes. TBCs hate the quasi signals.
I have never had to worry,or think about PAL/NTSC being a US baby, Just always assumed everything worked NTSC/USA ..I always vaguely knew there was a difference in voltages/AC plugs between US/European equipment (Audio/Video/Music gear)...But since I have subscribed and learned on this site, I always ignored the PAL stuff
Reply With Quote
Reply




Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Is this electrical interference? (ATI AIW 9700 Pro video capture) trapper70 Capture, Record, Transfer 4 05-14-2013 06:13 AM
Hi8 Capture - Noise/Interference at bottom of frame mbaya Capture, Record, Transfer 6 09-17-2012 06:54 PM
Distorted picture during capture sdr0 Capture, Record, Transfer 3 04-21-2005 03:37 PM
Can't capture AVI at 720x480 with ATI 9600XT? Shadow Capture, Record, Transfer 3 01-10-2005 09:54 PM

Thread Tools



 
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:09 PM