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  #21  
06-12-2017, 02:46 PM
LOHPLT LOHPLT is offline
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I am safe in assuming that Sanlyn's VDub config settings are still optimal for the default workflow? I've been grubbing around with VDub's settings and the new capture hardware with very good results...much, much better VHS recovery that with the standard consumer brand VCR setup. However, I'm looking for a default initial capture config VHS to HuffyUV avi. Is there and consensus on whether filtering should be invoked during baseline capture? Thus far, the default setting on the proc amp - little or no sharpening - no filter chain look just great. Of course, you can always hope for 30 year old VHS to look like modern day digital HD, but it ain't gonna happen I think. What's consensus on noise filtering during capture? If the tape is relatively noise free, just take the default noise filter or turn it off? Thanks in advance.
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  #22  
06-12-2017, 08:18 PM
msgohan msgohan is offline
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The consensus is never filter during capture.
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  #23  
06-13-2017, 06:04 AM
LOHPLT LOHPLT is offline
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Thank you; I will follow suit.
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  #24  
01-22-2018, 03:00 AM
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I want to add some notes.

(1) In the timing options, always try to leave VirtualDub at the defaults. Let it drop or insert if too/far. The very best capture setups will not have an issues with it. When it does cause problems, it's a good sign that you have multiple issues to address. Anytime I've had to alter these settings away from defaults, the same card had issues with I/O (HDD) or display (DirectX) or something else.

(2) Don't try to get buffer/RAM/CPU crazy, thinking your name powerful whizbang system has the power. It's a 32-bit app with 32-bit drivers on (likely) legacy hardware. It doesn't care how fast/etc the system is.

(3) Overlay is best. In this display mode the video does not eat into CPU/RAM, thus prevent issues with timing/cache/etc. Again, when you have one issue, you almost always have multiple issues. The workaround is preview mode, which can cause conflicts with timing/cache/etc. So all settings must be tweaked. This is the main reason my ideal setting do not match sanlyn's. Apparently his main system, like my own secondary/backup system, has mild but workable capture problems.

(4) Huffyuv tends to be safer that Lagarith, which hits the CPU harder for the ~15% compression gain. But if you're already have resource issues, it's just another monkey wrench to throw into the works. Or even if you're not (yet) having issues, Lagarith can make them appear.

(5) Never capture below 720x480 or 720x576. The legacy info regarding 352x is for MPEG capture on ATI AIW or DVD recorders, and x288(PAL) is trivia. Not for anything you'd really do in VirtualDub. VirtualDub means lossless, and you can downres later during editing/restoration output.

(6) Audio playback during capture almost never works, causing massive dropped frames. Almost! It does work on a very few select cards, and on the right system, with zero frames lost.

(7) You should always monitor your captures, but stop conditions are valuable. If you know a tape is 2 hours long, set it for 7500 seconds. You do not want to fill up a hard drive with video, especially an OS drive. It can cause major problems. Even worse, the captured video is broken and not salvageable. Stop conditions prevent this.

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  #25  
04-23-2018, 01:51 PM
RockandRoller70 RockandRoller70 is offline
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Can anyone recommend Virtual Dub 1.9.11 levels settings for use with an AIW 600 USB?

The settings earlier in this thread do are not available as stated.
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  #26  
04-23-2018, 03:38 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is online now
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The levels settings in the proc amp dialog will vary with each input source, and will even vary during the play of a tape or other source. You are supposed to check and adjust signal levels with every capture, using the histogram and other features as shown in the Guide in Post #3.
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  #27  
06-06-2018, 03:53 PM
mocarob mocarob is offline
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Great guide. My question is about color space. I'm capturing Laserdisc with a Diamond VC500. (no tbc) Should I still use YUY2? The options are YUY2, UYVY & Y8.. Here's my mediainfo from my test capture with Lags.. Thank You..

Bit rate : 58.8 Mb/s
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 3:2
Frame rate : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
Standard : NTSC
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:2
Bit depth : 8 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 5.673
Stream size : 535 MiB (97%)
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  #28  
06-06-2018, 04:08 PM
metaleonid metaleonid is offline
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Yes to capturing in YUY2.
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  #29  
06-06-2018, 04:16 PM
mocarob mocarob is offline
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Sorry, Just realized my question below is N/A.. Can somebody delete this post?

Thanks. I don't want to clutter up this guide with too many newbie questions but I'm going to try HUFFYUV also. Does the configure page change when using that codec with LD not VHS? IE: field threshold lines?
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  #30  
08-07-2018, 07:42 PM
monohydr4te monohydr4te is offline
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I'm getting frame perfect timing with these virtualdub timing settings using a JVC HR-S6900U -> Pioneer DMR-ES10 -> ATI HD600 on Windows 10 using Virtualdub 1.9.11:



General options:
uncheck both drop/insert frames

Resync mode:
Do not resync between audio and video streams

Yes correct video timing
Yes Automatically disable resync

Automatic audio latency determination

Only check use audio timestamps when available


Attached Images
File Type: png virtualdub timing.PNG (19.3 KB, 294 downloads)

Last edited by monohydr4te; 08-07-2018 at 07:45 PM. Reason: operating system
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  #31  
10-19-2018, 07:18 PM
bar72 bar72 is offline
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Thank You sanlyn, very informative guide.. as a noob to capturing, vdub can be a bit overwhelming at first
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  #32  
11-28-2018, 02:08 AM
cicaesar cicaesar is offline
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I really can't figure out the resolution setting: my tapes are old "8" cassettes, in PAL format I believe (southern europe), so I set 25 fps for frame rate, and I should set 720x576 resolution as per the many posts I've read here.
But the image looks "stretched out", and all the faces look "long", while if I set 720x480 everything looks fine to me. Or could that be my memory failing since the clips are from 25 years ago?
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  #33  
11-28-2018, 02:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cicaesar View Post
I really can't figure out the resolution setting: my tapes are old "8" cassettes, in PAL format I believe (southern europe), so I set 25 fps for frame rate, and I should set 720x576 resolution as per the many posts I've read here.
But the image looks "stretched out", and all the faces look "long", while if I set 720x480 everything looks fine to me. Or could that be my memory failing since the clips are from 25 years ago?
Your confusion comes from SAR vs. DAR:
- storage aspect ratio
- display aspect ratio

Full D1 resolution MPEG is 720x576 PAL, or 720x480 NTSC. And neither look correct when viewing, because the pixels are rectangular and not square. The NTSC is 3:2, and the PAL is 5:4. But viewing is 4:3.

When you view the video, and it stretches out correctly, it's equivalent to 640x480 or 720x540. Do not capture at that resolution, just understand the equivalencies in your head. You only convert to 1:1 square pixels, at those resolutions, after capture, when doing something that requires 1:1 like streaming/Youtube. For the capture, you want full valid specs of 720x480 or 720x576.

Does this all make more sense now?

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  #34  
11-28-2018, 09:12 AM
cicaesar cicaesar is offline
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Hey there, thank you very much for your quick answer, it prompted me to read other posts about SAR and DAR, but I still can't quite grasp it.

As I understood it:
- I've captured PAL videos at 720x480, and this is wrong, so I have to recapture everything at 720x576
- After capturing, I need to reconvert from 720x576 (proportion 1.25) to the correct resolution? What is that resolution for PAL?
- Should I reconvert maintaining the Huffyuv format and delete the orginal afterwarods, or the original capture should stay at 720x576?

Thank you very much for your help, I should have posted earlier since I've already converted about 15 hours of videos :_(
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  #35  
11-28-2018, 12:40 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cicaesar View Post
I really can't figure out the resolution setting: my tapes are old "8" cassettes, in PAL format I believe (southern europe), so I set 25 fps for frame rate, and I should set 720x576 resolution as per the many posts I've read here.
But the image looks "stretched out", and all the faces look "long", while if I set 720x480 everything looks fine to me. Or could that be my memory failing since the clips are from 25 years ago?
No, they don't display at the correct aspect ratio, not at 720x576 nor as 720x480. The display aspect ratio of your original source tape is 4:3. Neither of the display sizes mentioned above will display as 4:3 when viewed as decompressed AVI. 720x576 has an aspect ratio of 5:4, while 720x480 has an aspect ratio of 3:2.

Physical frame sizes for the NTSC or PAL DVD formats are anamorphic. To you this means that the pixels in a PAL or NTSC DVD are not square-shaped pixels. They are defined as rectangular: the encoded NTSC and PAL pixels are physically wider than they are tall. One reason for using anamorphic video was that the same frame size would have to serve double duty: the frames would have to display at either a 4:3 ratio or a 16:9 ratio, depending on how they were encoded. Another reason was that the pixels on older TVs were designed to scan as rectangules, not squares.

When you display a 720x576 un-encoded, decompressed AVI frame on a PC monitor the image will not display in its correct aspect ratio for two reasons:
(1) The un-encoded AVI capture video file does not have display aspect ratio (DAR) information embedded in its data. Nor does un-encoded video have a pixel-shape aspect ratio (PAR). As far as your computer is concerned, the display aspect ratio and the pixel shape ratio are assumed to be the same as the aspect ratio of the frame size.
(2) PC monitors have square pixels, not rectangular pixels.

When you encode a video with a standard video codec, the encoder adds playback information to the video's data. This playback information includes the frame rate, the pixel aspect ratio, the intended display aspect ratio, whether the video is interlaced or telecined, whether it's progressive video with soft-encopded pulldown flags, the audio compression format, and other information that video players and PC media players need to know in order to play the video as intended.

Don't assume that standard definition DVD video is the only system that uses anamorphic, non-square pixels. High definition also has an anamorphic frame size: 1440x1080 BluRay/AVCHD is not a 16:9 frame, but media players will play it as 16:9 because the 1440x1080 HD video will be encoded with 16:9 DAR information embedded in its data. It will display as 1920x1080 on a 1920x1080 screen or will be downscaled or upscaled in 16:9 proportions depending on the display panel's size. Other video systems that use a variety of anamorphic (non-square) pixels are surveillance and scientific recording systems. Those anamorphic non-square frames will have display information that cause them to be played at the correct aspect ratio in square-pixel displays. Also, the BluRay and AVCHD spec includes standard definition video, which for BluRay and AVCHD is 720x480 NTSC / 720x576 PAL playing at either 4:3 or 16:9 display aspect ratios.

DVD and standard definition BluRay can also use other anamorphic frame sizes. DVD can use 704x480 NTSC/704x576 PAL, or 352x480 NTSC/352x576 PAL, encoded for either 4:3 or 16:9 DAR. BluRay can also use 704x480/704x576 but a 16:9 display aspect ratio must use the 720 width for BluRay.

When you play your non-square AVI captures in a media player, you can tell the media player what aspect ratio you want for display. All media players except the godawful Windows Media Player have menus that will let you change the playback aspect ratio. VirtualDub and many other editors will let you change the aspect ratio of the display pane. If the video has no embedded aspect ratio information, the default aspect ratio for those players is always the same aspect ratio as the physical frame size. Onscreen video players on the internet have square-pixel playback only and can't play anamorphic video correctly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cicaesar View Post
As I understood it:
- I've captured PAL videos at 720x480, and this is wrong, so I have to recapture everything at 720x576
Correct. And you have to capture the framerate as 25fps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cicaesar View Post
- After capturing, I need to reconvert from 720x576 (proportion 1.25) to the correct resolution? What is that resolution for PAL?
Why do you have to reconvert the frame size? Is it for posting on the internet?

The correct resolution for D-1 PAL DVD and standard def BluRay is anamorphic 720x576. The display aspect ratio (DAR) can be either 4:3 or 16:9, depending on how the image is supposed to look during play. The 4:3 or 16:9 aspect ratio can be embedded by any encoder.

If you want to convert your anamorphic video to square-pixel frames for web posting, multiply the desired height by the desired width ratio. An aspect ratio is stated in terms of width-to-height. For 4:3 video, the width is 4 and the height is 3. So if you start with a height of 480, multiply that by 1.3333333 (4 divided by 3 is 1.333333). Multiply the height of 480 by 1.3333333 to get the width, which would be 3 x 1.333333 = a width of 639.999999. Since you can't have a width of 639.999999, round that number so that the answer is an even number that can be evenly divided by 8, and you get 640. So your 4:3 frame would be 640x480 in square-pixel format.

A 720x576 PAL video frame played at 4:3 DAR on a big screen without upscaling to fill the screen would have a width of (576 x 1.333333 = 767.999999), or rounded for mod-8 dimensions would be a width of 768. So a PAL frame in square-pixel terms is 768x576. "Mod-8" is a number that can be evenly divided by 8. You could also resize it to a more standard 640x480, which is still a 4:3 frame size.

If you wanted a smaller 4x3 frame, start with a height of 300. Multiply the height by 1.333333 and you get 300 x 1.333333 = a width of 399.999999, or rounded to 400. So the smaller frame would be 400x300 in square-pixel terms. Another popular 4:3 frame size on the internet is 456x340.

A 16x9 ratio is the same as a 1.7778:1 width-to-height ratio (16 divided by 9 = 1.7778). So an NTSC 720x480 at 16:9 square-pixel without upscaling would have a height of 480 and a width that would be 480 x 1.7778 = 853.44. Round off that width to a mod-8 number of 856, and the 16:9 NTSC frame would be 856x480.

A 16x9 PAL 720x576 frame with a 16:9 DAR would display in square-pixels as 1024x576. Multiply the width of 576 by the 1.7778 ratio and you get a width of 1024.0128, rounded to a mod-8 width of 1024.

To get the display width for any 4:3 video played on a 1920x1080 screen, start with the maximum height, which would be 1080. To get the width, multiply the height of 1080 x 1.3333 = 1439.999996, rounded to 1440. So the maximum size that a 4:3 video could display on a 16x9 1920xz1080 wide-screen display panel is 1440x1080. The display will insert black pillars on each side of the frame to fill the 16x9 screen.

Caution 1: resizing requires that you deinterlace the original. Deinterlacing always has a quality cost -- how much depends on how it's done. The best deinterlacer is Avisynth's QTGMC. Deinterlacing doubles the frame rate and doubles the number of frames.

Caution 2: You cannot make a DVD using square-pixel formats.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cicaesar View Post
Should I reconvert maintaining the Huffyuv format and delete the orginal afterwards, or the original capture should stay at 720x576?
Always archive your original as-is. Why would you want to alter the original attributes of your master version? Resizing always has a cost.

If you would like to continue this discussion or submit samples for instruction, we request that you start a new thread about aspect ratio problems rather than hijack this thread, whose subject is capture procedures.

Last edited by sanlyn; 11-28-2018 at 01:22 PM.
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  #36  
05-13-2019, 08:57 PM
traal traal is offline
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I had trouble following this guide with my Diamond VC500, but I figured it out.

On Step 2, I choose "Microsoft WDM Image Capture (Win32) (VFW)", not the other option which is "Conexant Polaris Video Capture (DirectShow)" which the guide suggests I should be using. The Conexant driver just gives a black screen, I don't know why it's there.

On Step 3, the "Levels" are located not directly under the "Video" top level menu (where the "Levels" menu item is disabled) but under "Video" then "Source...", and select the "Device Settings" tab:

VC500 Levels.png

The "Capture Source" tab visible in the screenshot above is where you choose S-Video or Composite.

I hope this helps the next person.



Last edited by traal; 05-13-2019 at 09:31 PM. Reason: Elaboration.
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  #37  
05-13-2019, 09:12 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is online now
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Yes, those Levels settings can be a problem when they exist in 2 or 3 different dialogs.
Thanks for the notations.
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  #38  
05-14-2019, 03:13 PM
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I will definitely second that motion to thank Sanlyn for all the detailed info he has provided - invaluable to the newbie!
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  #39  
05-14-2019, 05:21 PM
hodgey hodgey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by traal View Post
On Step 2, I choose "Microsoft WDM Image Capture (Win32) (VFW)", not the other option which is "Conexant Polaris Video Capture (DirectShow)" which the guide suggests I should be using. The Conexant driver just gives a black screen, I don't know why it's there.
The two options are two different ways of connecting to the capture card in windows. That's also the reason why the levels have to be set in a different place for the VFW option. Usually the DirectShow one works fine, but YMMV.
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  #40  
07-30-2019, 01:39 AM
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"[...] Some versions of huffyuv don't have the threshold input panel. The figure of 288 tells these versions of huffyuv that either NTSC or PAL interlaced is being captured at either 480 or 576 pixel height. This figure works for interlaced and progressive input. Huffyuv versions without the threshold parameter don't require it, obviously. [...]"

Source of quote: Capturing with VirtualDub [Settings Guide]

1. What if some versions of HuffYUV do not have the "threshold" setting ?
What settings does HuffYUV set then - how does it work and how it capturing in VirtualDub ?

2. How set up VirtualDub so that the analog signal will be capturing and saved in the interlace (that's how the VHS recordings were made from what I know) ?
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