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  #1  
08-12-2019, 08:13 PM
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I came across an incredibly cheap 4x4x2 box with SCART and S-Video, Composite and Stereo inputs.

Thought I would take a look at it and found some quite interesting features.

First (I assumed) it was just like the other Canopus ADVC - DV video encoders hanging off a USB connection to the Mac.. I was wrong.. its not DV.

Instead its AIC - Apple Intermediate Codec, 720x480 4:2:0 16:9, AAC.

It is a hardware encoder, but its high bandwidth. The AIC wikipedia says was non-Temporal so it was made for HD capture and editing. This makes it like DV, but at 4:2:0 so in theory "better" than MPEG2.

There doesn't seem to be a lot of information about the device. It works on my 10.6 Mac Mini without any issue. The software was still available online. Its capture software drives the little box, it does not appear as a DV camera to the operating system.. but its specifically tailored to drop captures in iMovie or iTunes default import folders.

Most Mac capture devices I've reviewed like the EyeTV200 (firewire 400) or the ATI AIW USB 2.0 (usb 2.0) had to be used with EyeTV.. so no generic capture software.. these did allow you almost infinite control over the capture profiles.

But this is the first device I've seen with standalone capture software that is not annoying.

The AJA IOLA and IO were interesting.. but took a lot of pro-level amps and cables to connect everything up.. and take up a lot of space.

All of the DV capture devices.. like Migilia Director Take2, Formac, Canopus ADVC, Datavideo ect.. appear to the Mac operating system as firewire cameras and are the most flexible.. but they capture in DV at 4:1:0 NTSC.

This is the first device I've come across that has both NTSC S-Video and PAL SCART over USB in a lightly compressed 4:2:0 form factor, nothing as deep as MPEG2. The picture quality is really good.

Capture files are limited to 12 hours by the capture software.

Normally I wouldn't consider a Mac for a capture platform.. but this device is very intriguing.

I wish I knew more about it, it seems to have appeared on Grass Valley's website in 2010 and disappeared fairly quickly.. I wonder why.

It is not MPEG2 or h.264 or Divx, nor DV capable.. only the Apple Intermediate Codec.

Strange little device the output files seem to make iMove, iTunes and Final Cut Pro 3 very happy.. no complaints or pauses loading. VLC (aka ffmpeg) has no problem decoding either.

Update:

Discovered ramping up the bit rate changes the compression from Apple Intermediate Codec to Uncompressed 4:2:2

Weird that you have no feedback, anything less than a certain "Quality" uses AIC, but maxing it out shoved it over into Uncompressed capture. Not exactly for control freaks.. but makes the choices simple.

Last edited by jwillis84; 08-12-2019 at 08:53 PM.
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  #2  
08-12-2019, 09:33 PM
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MPEG can be 4:2:2 or 4:2:0.
DVD-Video and BD specs are 4:2:0, but broadcast is 4:2:2.

I vaguely remember that box from the ads in Broadcast Engineering. Grass Valley / Canopus plastered it with ads quite regularly.

Quick discontinuation probably due to Mac doing everything it could to reject video at the time.

Does it work in 10.6.8?
I've decided not to upgrade to 10.11 after all, too many issues trying to upgrade.
If so, I'll try to find one and test with it.
Also, what OS X does compatibility cease?

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08-12-2019, 09:56 PM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
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Interesting find indeed, Does it have some sort of TBC ? and did you try hooking it up to a PC platform?
Any pictures?
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08-12-2019, 10:01 PM
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I heavily doubt it has TBC -- and even if it does, it'll be weak garbage like the ADVC-300.

Yeah, plug it up to x86 XP and x64 Windows 7/10, see what happens.
I'd also look into Linux, specially Ubuntu based.

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08-13-2019, 01:07 AM
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The documentation is practically zip.. User manual is a complete joke.

Its for Mac (only) which I guess explains the Apple Intermediate Codec compression (or not) it could be doing the compression on the Mac from the Quicktime library for all that I know. I assumed it was hardware compression until I saw 69 GB later after recording a 55 minute NOVA episode it was so huge and checked the compression.. none.. nada.. zero zip.. it was 4:2:2 Uncompressed.

For the softwares part.. I really like the simplicity of install and intuitive use.. except for figuring out how to go from Compressed capture to Uncompressed capture (hint: rail the Quality slider) it was pretty easy to use.

The box is solid.. like a brick.. aluminum metal exoskeleton with side and top bottom panels of lucite. Connectors are tight and not loose or wobbly.. the board they are attached to must be locked in place tightly. Its very light weight.. but not like breath on it and it will go flying.. its got a little heft to it. It vaguely looks like an old fashioned Mac mini with connectors on three sides.

The Software was released it appears only once in August 2010.

OSX 10.6.8 (2009) was popular at the time (very popular, ultra stable) and a lot of hardware vendors standardized on that.

OSX 10.7 Lion (2011) would spoil the party and be wacky as Vista...

I have a OSX 10.8 laptop I can test with it tomorrow.

I tried it only on 10.6.8 tonight.

1.83 MHz Intel Core2Duo
3 GB 667 MHz DDR2 SDRAM

Uncompressed capture uses 51% CPU
Compressed capture uses 67% CPU

But the system doesn't seem to strain. My test capture of a 55 minute NOVA episode succeeded without problems. Plays back nicely.

I see no details about frame drops, the ads said something about PerfectSync technology.. yadi yadda

I think it must be doing the compression on the Mac, when it does compress to disk during capture.

The nice thing is it seems very stable and will capture Uncompressed.. its just convenient.

For PAL capture it supports S-Video, Composite and RGB according to the help file.

It runs very very cool.. almost seems to pull heat from the room.. its that cool. Whatever is in the box isn't straining.

I guess its not much different from many EMPIA boxes like Honest tech ect.. but it came from Grass Valley.. home of AJA.. and they knew video around there. Even if Thomson bought up a lot of the little companies and eventually got Canopus.

I looked at it mostly expecting a DV hardware codec and found a cool Uncompressed box, with ports but no dangling pre-attached cables.. everything needs a standard connector.. including a full sized SCART port that supports RGB.

I'm tempted to dismiss it.. except.. I don't know a lot of stable box, software combinations for the Mac, that include an SCART and just seems to work really good.

I don't really expect to trust a built-in TBC feature in a capture dongle.. I'd turn that off anyway and use an external in between. But it doesn't list a TBC off feature.. that could be a problem if there is a bad interaction between something in the box and an external TBC.

I haven't checked the original price from Grass Valley, it has their logo deeply embedded in the lucite on top. It cost me about ten dollars and free shipping. I didn't even really expect it to work. Grass Valley software ftp server had a copy of the ADVC Capture software installer.. no key was needed. Box looked totally dead until I started the software, it detected the hardware and turned on a "small" strategically placed led light to indicate it was in use.

I'll try a PC and Linux laptop tomorrow and see what happens.. not a lot of hope.. I got the PID and VID and they point at Grass Valley but not a specific device.. so its custom hardware.. or at least the USB bridge chip. But then again I've never heard of it.. so who knows.

Says designed in Japan and made in Taiwan on the bottom.. but I don't know if those are plus or minus points.


Attached Images
File Type: jpg ADVC Capture.jpg (37.5 KB, 6 downloads)
File Type: jpg ADVC mini.jpg (6.7 KB, 5 downloads)

Last edited by jwillis84; 08-13-2019 at 01:34 AM.
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08-13-2019, 01:43 AM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
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Wonder why Grass Valley didn't make a PC version back then, I guess Pinnacle and Diamond were basically taking the lead in the analog capture business.
It seems no longer available anywhere:
https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16815299023R
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08-13-2019, 04:16 AM
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Looks almost exactly the same as the Terratec Grabster 350 MX, which seem to be based around Empia bridge + TVP5150AM video decoder.

Granted, the internals may be different.


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08-13-2019, 07:23 AM
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I don't think the TVP5150 supports RGB capture, you'd need another ADC for that. SCART ports usually carry audio, composite, and sometimes S-Video (unofficial extension to plug standard).
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08-13-2019, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hodgey View Post
Looks almost exactly the same as the Terratec Grabster 350 MX, which seem to be based around Empia bridge + TVP5150AM video decoder.

Granted, the internals may be different.
Bingo that looks exactly like it. Many thanks!

I wonder if software for that would work with this.. even on Windws maybe?

But Terratec specialized in Mac capture devices I think.. still its nice to hear something about the insides.. possibly before opening it up.

Has that label from back then on a lot of Japan capture boxes.. do not open!

.. one of these days I'm gonna find a spring loaded clown snake and it will pop out.

That website has drivers for OSX, Win7 32/64 and Win 10 32/64 and much better User Quickstart and Capture software manual.

I would lay odds it is the Texas Instrument chipset seen in the ATI USB 600.. that would explain the high visual quality I'm seeing in the image which is uncommon with most EMPIA or Connexant capture dongles.

It has two things above and beyond the ATI USB 600 however:

1. No preattached dangling cables
2. SCART RGB

The ATI USB 600 also has Windows 7 and I think Windows 10 drivers.

Terratec was out of Germany Gmhb (i think?) which made them direct competitors to Pinnacle.

If this guesswork is correct though, I like this box better.. more solid build, better connectors.

(And no Tuner? I've found capture dongles with Tuners get very hot and sometimes they might introduce interference)

So

ATI USB 600 +tuner

Grass Valley/Terratec - tuner (professional edition?)

I do know that Pinnacle made their own chip hardware, they were fabless I think but the 500-usb and 700-usb descendents of the Moviebox were standalone with only one or two chips that look custom. I've found them quite useful as field monitors using VirtualDub on a PC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by latreche34 View Post
Wonder why Grass Valley didn't make a PC version back then, I guess Pinnacle and Diamond were basically taking the lead in the analog capture business.
It seems no longer available anywhere:
https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16815299023R
If this is the Terratec incognito.. I hope those Win7/10 capture apps work with this unit as well.

Darn few cross platform compatible capture dongles.

Confirming its the tvp chip would be cool too

Quote:
Originally Posted by NJRoadfan View Post
I don't think the TVP5150 supports RGB capture, you'd need another ADC for that. SCART ports usually carry audio, composite, and sometimes S-Video (unofficial extension to plug standard).
I've learned SCART can mean a lot of things.. not all of them intuitive.

RGB could be or YUV or Component or something else.

My guess is the tvp chip has component input lines and its hooked to that.. it might be an approximate RGB/YUV input even if the color spaces don't precisely match.

Its quite a puzzle box.. I keep thinking I'm done with it, ready to toss it aside.. and then there is always .. just one more thing.. to look at.

If those Terratec drivers work for example.. I wonder about the ATI USB 600 drivers and whether any of the Directshow filters will work with VirtualDub on the PC.

I can understand the ATI USB 600 as a "tuner" focused capture device.. ATI was all about coming up with DVR/PVR and Channel guide bundles. It had an ATSC tuner.. in a dongle.. quite a feat back then. They saw that as their competition space.

Avid/Pinnacle devices were more for the Videomaker and VHS import, Grass Valley more about Broadcast video products and services, this was for VHS import I thnk.. that they were Uncompressed biased and didn't really have outboard compression hardware makes sense. They had moved on beyond DV and this was low end (but expensive) gear.

I do wonder about Lordsmurfs recollection they marketed the heck out of these things. What for as an example? I see the old order pages on BHPhoto and that one pointed too above at Newegg.. but there are zero reviews and zero comments. Was the field just saturated with competitors?
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08-13-2019, 09:30 AM
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If it actually supported RGB via the SCART port, it would be on people's radars for things like video game capture. I'm leaning towards it only taking composite and S-Video from the SCART jack. S-Video uses the red video pin on SCART ports for chroma output, making it mutually incompatible with RGB or component input. TI's datasheet only indicates composite and s-video as well.

One of my high end RGB frame grabbers uses the TVP5150AM for composite and S-video input, the RGB and component input is handled by an Intersil chip (which can natively do 4:4:4 RGB capture).
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08-13-2019, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwillis84
Uncompressed capture uses 51% CPU
Compressed capture uses 67% CPU
Wow, that's a lot of CPU use for capture.
Even ATI MMC with MPEG2 @ 15-20mbps doesn't do that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwillis84
I do know that Pinnacle made their own chip hardware
They did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwillis84
Bingo that looks exactly like it. Many thanks!
Never assume physical appearance equates to identical innards. There were lots of off-the-shelf cases used by many manufacturers. The best example is Cypress TBCs ... and not TBCs, using the same cases.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NJRoadfan
I'm leaning towards it only taking composite and S-Video from the SCART jack.
Same here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwillis84
I do wonder about Lordsmurfs recollection they marketed the heck out of these things. What for as an example? I see the old order pages on BHPhoto and that one pointed too above at Newegg.. but there are zero reviews and zero comments. Was the field just saturated with competitors?
Canopus was almost more of a marketing company than a video product company. They made a few things, then marketed and milked it literally for decades. Mac was never a popular capture system in the pro world, only to artsy-fartsy filmmakers types. By the time this little doodad came out, those folks were already dipped their toes into HD.

I think the main rival product was the Matrox MX02, and Matrox and Canopus were always rivals (with Canopus often losing those fights). The MX02 was the better known product.

The main reason most of us know the Canopus name anymore is the ADVC devices. Had Matrox design a DV box, odds are it would have both been better, and crushed Canopus. But for whatever reason, Matrox never did.

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08-13-2019, 01:29 PM
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Well the Terratec drivers were strictly EMPIA 2830/40 generic stuff from 2013.

While the case was very similar the internals were not.

I have to admire who designed this case, it was uber simple to take apart.. I mean it practically "exploded" and disassembled itself.. and went right back together just as easy. It was like the case was "instructing" you how to handle it.. its very cleverly designed. It may look Apple-ish.. but its far far from it.

The only hard thing was finding the right size star bit, its quite tiny.

I can only guess at these chips I've never heard of most of the manufacturers.. they are 'Not' EMPIA..

The big chip is from Micronas AVF 4900B from the 49x0B family

Quote:
The AVF 49x0B supports worldwide analog broadcast TV video decoding and analog video input sources, including composite video, S-Video, component video, and SCART RGB. The video data path features superior quality with its 10-bit front-to-back video processing.

The integrated universal VBI data slicer supports data formats such as Teletext, closed captioning, CGMS, XDS and many more formats. Combined with the choice of providing the VBI data either by merging it into the ITU-656 video output stream or via the IC serial command interface makes the chip easy to integrate into virtually all platforms.

The AVF 49x0B also delivers exceptional audio quality and supports enhanced high definition (HD) digital video formats of up to 1080i resolution through its analog component video inputs.

The audio-video decoder supports NTSC, PAL and SECAM standards, and at the same time, through its 3-D comb filter option, enables very high quality Y/C separation for composite video sources.

4900B datasheet
The tiny chip is a demodulator chip from Afatech AF9035B-N2 its a combination demodulator and USB bridge chip.. which to me means its a crossbar switch that must feed the larger chip.. where the actual A to D must take place.

The middle chip is a standard DRAM chip still available from Mouser.

Except for the Afatech USB bridge this design is similar to the Hauppauge WinTV HVR-930C with the 4910B version of the decoder.

So a guess would be Grass Valley got the device from the same source only with a different USB bridge chip that would explain why the Terratec driver didn't work.. what's actually inside the Terretec I can't be sure but they could have gone EMPIA all the way instead of mixing and matching components.

.. kind of fun doing a tear down of retro capture hardware.

Since Grass Valley didn't sell it long, I would assume no redesigns or component drift.. but also somewhat hard to get one.

Did I mention its bus powered? No external power source required, gets all it needs from the USB connection.

Regardless of the CPU usage (a lot of that could have been the full size audio and video playback during capture.. Yikes!) the picture looks very very good and stable as a rock. I doubt you can go out on a hunt and find these readily.. but if you come across one.. and its a good price, then think about trying it out. It is Mac only (10.6.8 so far) but its a good capture solution for Apple Intermediate Codec and Uncompressed capture on a Mac.


Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1.far_board.jpg (96.7 KB, 3 downloads)
File Type: jpg 2.near_board.jpg (174.4 KB, 3 downloads)
File Type: jpg 3.closeup_big_chip.jpg (142.5 KB, 3 downloads)
File Type: jpg 4.closeup_middling_chip.jpg (174.6 KB, 3 downloads)
File Type: jpg 5.closeup_litl_chip.jpg (173.9 KB, 3 downloads)

Last edited by jwillis84; 08-13-2019 at 01:40 PM.
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  #13  
08-13-2019, 01:53 PM
hodgey hodgey is offline
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Quote:
So a guess would be Grass Valley got the device from the same source only with a different USB bridge chip that would explain why the Terratec driver didn't work..
Probably only the outer shell, the hardware otherwise is completely different.

I'm guessing the RAM chip is for the 3D comb filter as mentioned in the datasheet.

Judging by the linuxtv wiki these chips seems to otherwise have mostly been used in usb Tuners rather than capture devices with analog inputs.
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08-13-2019, 02:01 PM
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Yeah.. I've long wondered if combing an active RF to IF demodulator with a pure capture setup was a bad idea in the long run. I mean the circuit is more complex, generates more heat.. more potential sources for interference, needs better shielding.

A pure capture design doesn't have to deal with any of that.

Too bad there are not apparently many examples of a pure video capture system.. most.. even DVD recorders had some sort of tuners embedded.

It is 10-Bit however.. astonishing.

Only ATI had 10 or 12 bit that I know. The output would be 8 bit of course.. but it gave a much larger digital filter range in which to work when rejecting noise.
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08-13-2019, 02:30 PM
hodgey hodgey is offline
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Oh there are plenty of 10 and 12-bit video decoders around, they're just not as common in usb dongles:
  • Philips/NXP - e.g SAA7138 10-bit (used in many DVD recorders), SAA716x, PCIe capture cards
  • NEC made a few, notably used in Toshiba, Pioneer and Sony DVD-recorders and this oddball capture card.
  • Renesas (earlier Techwell and also took over NECs stuff) - seen TW chips used in DVD-recorders, but they didn't seem too common.
  • Analog Devices have a bunch of 10 bits, and a few 12-bit ones - typically found in High-end capture cards like Blackmagic, Matrox, AJa and many of the "gamer" capture thingies that have both HDMI and analog inputs, and seemingly many A/V receivers.
  • TI had the TVP5160.
  • Panasonic's dvd recorder chips also came in 10 or 12-bit versions I think.
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08-13-2019, 07:08 PM
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Q. Does ADVC Capture and its device drivers work on OS X other than 10.6.8 (Snow Leopard)

A. Yes, it works on OS X 10.8.5 (Mountain Lion) on my MacBook Pro Mid 2012 very well.

Captured at full 4:2:2 Uncompressed, no audio or video sync problems, crystal clear.

2.5 GHz Intel Core i5
8 GB 1600 MHz DDR3

27% CPU during Uncompressed Capture, Live playback audio and video during capture
20% CPU during Uncompressed Capture, minimized, no video but audio heard during capture

Looks as good as the ATI AIW USB 2.0N over USB 2.0 on XPSP2.

Last edited by jwillis84; 08-13-2019 at 07:55 PM.
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08-14-2019, 03:03 AM
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I will keep an eye on a Terratec and see if I can hunt one down to test on PC system just to see how it behaves with Vdub.
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08-14-2019, 08:51 AM
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I found this last night in a 'Release Notes August 2010' paper.

Quote:
Video quality settings

The ADVC capture software has THREE video quality settings.

The video quality settings are:

Left --- Center --- Right


CT default
Use this position if you need to load the capture file into a Apple OS X machine for playback, editing or burning a DVD.
File size is 180MB/min ~ 11 GB/hr

LT
Use this position if you need to load the capture file into a Windows OS machine for playback, editing or burning a DVD.
File size is 217MB/min ~ 13 GB/hr

RT
Use this position if you need to load the capture file into a Windows OS/OS X machine for playback, editing or burning a DVD.
File size is 1000MB/min ~ 60 GB/hr
I also found the AFA chip a commonly used USB bridge chip.. used in many dongle capture devices before 2005. The Micronas AVF chip was a bit more rare.. I haven't found another user, although it was used in DVD recorders, Mobile playback devices and TVs.

The AFA chip was the communicator with the PC, it directed control commands to a TV tuner if there was one, and to the AVF chip to input from a particular source and then return the digital output to the AFA for transport to the PC.

The EMPIA type capture dongles all use one of the 2800 series USB bridge chips, but which tuner and or which Video capture chip is used on the other side is hidden from the PC.

All the PC drivers, for WinOS or MacOS upload a small proprietary blob of code to program the USB bridge chip when the driver starts up.. its the operating system for the USB bridge chip and tells it what devices are on the other side. Its unreadable and written in the USB bridge chips internal language. So if there isn't a driver written for a specific capture dongle.. without this bit its unlikely it will ever be written. All of the Linux drivers seem to "borrow" this proprietary "hardware blob" from the real driver that came with whichever capture device and sneakily upload it to the USB bridge chip and then send the same commands to the bridge chip the genuine driver did from crib notes.

The Terratec "driver" lists the EMPIA 2800 bridge chip name in its Windows driver .INF installer files.. which tells me its not for the AFA bridge chip and will not work with the Grass Valley ADVCmini. I tried forcing it anyway, and the driver installed, but did not activate the capture led, nor did Directshow load the filters for the Terratec.. so its a no go.

That doesn't mean the Terratec (might) not use the Micronas AVF capture chip.. it could.. but the Terratec came out three years later in 2013.

EMPIA was like AFA in that it was a chipless fab design company. They scaled their product lines adding to it by gradually offering enhanced chips and chips that could do more eventually eating into the Video capture chip function by making all in one EMPIA chips that could do Video capture too. The EMPIA 2861 is one of the later all in one designs.. if I had to make a guess the Terratec probably used that to save money.

I'm not saying the new is worse than the old capture chips.. exactly.. but the staff were less experienced and the designs less robust. They were prone to more design flaws that were never corrected because returning to fix the flaws would cost more money.. they were just "good enough".

My opinion based on recent Experience is the Micronas in the Grass Valley ADVCmini is very good. I got a stable picture with deep rich blacks and it seems on the cusp of HD capture. I've only captured at 720x480 but the design specs say it could capture at 1080i if only the capture software did that.. but probably isn't going happen over a USB 2.0 connection.. so like the ATI Theater 200 chip.. its a bit over designed for its intended purpose. At 10 bit resolution on the ingest side, its also got the room to deal with non-spec signals and or the detail to fish out a signal where only noise might be perceived with coarser resolution.

The build quality and cable design is excellent, in that there are no permanently attached cables to wear out, only standard connectors which sit tight. Its small portable and light weight, fits easily in a bag. No superfluous inputs I don't need for non-SD capture. It was wholly designed for SD capture. It has no tuner or extra stuff to generate heat or get tangle up in.

The capture software is perfect for capture and only capture.. it doesn't try to be an Editor or Filter chain but can do some software compression.. if you need that.

I could (hope) the Terratec has the Micronas chip and works on Windows.. that would be very nice.. but I don't know that to be true and fear it will be another total EMPIA solution.
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08-14-2019, 09:15 AM
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13gb/hour is a curious number. That's the size of DV compression. I've never seen it used for any other format.

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08-14-2019, 09:43 AM
hodgey hodgey is offline
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As noted earlyer, there seems to be at least one edition of the grabster mx 350 using the TVP5150AM. Though of cour,se as we've seen with other dongles, manufactures can change to the newer all-in-one empia things and keep the same outward branding and number. E.g their smaller terratec grabby dongle seems to have changed from being empia-based to using a conexant chip similar to the VC500.

Also found a picture of the slightly newer but similar Terratec G3 which also shows a TVP5150AM. Don't know about the G4 since it seems to be very new.

There are a handful of other devices reported to have the TI chip as well.

The TVP5150AM chips are still made, so companies can still use them in new products.

I think both those use a different empia chip to the ATI 600 though, as they don't feature a tuner. Not sure whether that has any impact on quality.

The empia bridge chips don't hide the video decoding chip entirely, e.g under linux, you can send i2c commands to them to change settings. Not sure if the windows driver ever touches them though. The bridge chip does however include brightness/contrast/saturation etc. controls. Not sure if they change the settings on the A/D chips directly, or just process the digitized signal but I suspect the latter.

So far I've read about 4 different A/D chips having been used with the empia bridge, in addition to the all-in-one chips:
  • The TI TVP5150AM which is great
  • The Philips/Trident/NXP SAA7113H - okayish, though at least on the one I've tested there is some slight ringing in windows, but not in linux for whatever reason.
  • GM7113 - SAA7113H clone/knockof. Got a terratec grabby with this one, it's crap.
  • Silan SC8113 - Another SAA7113H clone/knockof I think, no idea about quality on this one one.

As for the Micronas AVF, the linuxtv wiki lists the Elgato EyeTV hybrid as using it.
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