Quantcast How to improve quality of CED Videodisc capture? - digitalFAQ Forum
  #1  
10-04-2020, 02:37 PM
WestRGB WestRGB is offline
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In case anyone asks why I'm trying to restore CED Videodiscs... great question! I'm doing this for fun. Also known as a hobby. I think its interesting

My goal is to get the best video quality out of a CED Videodisc. My workflow:

RCA SJT-400 CED Player --> Composite out --> JVC HR-DVS3U --> S-Video out --> AVT-8710 --> Pinnacle 710-USB --> VirtualDub 1.9.11 on Windows 10

I am open to feedback on my capture setup (I plan on experimenting with some different components in the future), but right now I'm more interested in feedback on AVISynth+ filters. I am attaching a short raw capture for reference. Using AVSPmod, I've experimented with this script:

Code:
FFmpegSource2("raw.avi",atrack=1)
ConvertToYV12()
AssumeTFF()
Telecide(guide=1,post=2,vthresh=30)
Decimate()
BilinearResize(720,540)
maa2(mask=1, chroma=false, ss=2.0, aa=48, aac=40, threads=4, show=0)
Crop(8,0,-26,0)
Spline64Resize(720,540)
I see checkerboard patterns along hard diagonal lines, and I'm pretty sure that is aliasing as a result of composite video. But the antialias filter MAA2 doesn't seem to have the effect I want it to.

This capture also contains comets (inherent to basically all CEDs, I think). I've tried removing these with DeSpot with only middling results.

I'm a real amateur when it comes to AVISynth+ (so please be kind). I was hoping to draw on the expertise of those in the forums. Does anyone have any script suggestions?


Attached Files
File Type: avi raw.avi (97.15 MB, 0 downloads)
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  #2  
10-04-2020, 03:03 PM
WestRGB WestRGB is offline
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Update: I made an error in the video file uploaded originally. Wrong codec. Here's a fixed raw capture.


Attached Files
File Type: avi raw.avi (92.82 MB, 3 downloads)
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  #3  
10-05-2020, 12:58 AM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
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Too many components in the chain, Let the capture card handle the comb filtering, and why a frame TBC? Just try without it first unless you have problems:

RCA SJT-400 CED Player --> Composite out --> Pinnacle 710-USB --> VirtualDub 1.9.11 on Windows 10
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  #4  
10-05-2020, 12:15 PM
lingyi lingyi is offline
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+1

Very interested in removing the TBC as someone else has been asking about using a TBC for capture from discs (CED, LD, VHD) and the general consensus is it probably doesn't do anything because of the different nature disc playback.

And yes, the comets are common on CEDs because of the microscopic grooves of a CED. no so much dust, but imperfections in the pressing.
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  #5  
10-05-2020, 09:45 PM
WestRGB WestRGB is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lingyi View Post
someone else has been asking about using a TBC for capture from discs (CED, LD, VHD)
That was me

Quote:
Originally Posted by latreche34 View Post
Too many components in the chain. Try this:

RCA SJT-400 CED Player --> Composite out --> Pinnacle 710-USB --> VirtualDub 1.9.11 on Windows 10
Done! Raw capture attached. And you seem to be right, frame TBC not required for CED capture. Results look basically the same to a layman's eye like mine (open to feedback).

Still interested in filters to improve quality, though.


Attached Files
File Type: avi raw.avi (94.18 MB, 2 downloads)
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  #6  
10-05-2020, 11:05 PM
lingyi lingyi is offline
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If you can find one, try replacing the stylus cart. It may improve playback just like with vinyl records.
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  #7  
10-05-2020, 11:30 PM
WestRGB WestRGB is offline
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I actually purchased this SJT-400 New in Box a couple years ago (lucky find), and I’ve only used it very lightly. So the stylus is basically new.
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  #8  
10-06-2020, 07:32 PM
lingyi lingyi is offline
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After you're done with your transfers and want to be adventurous with your discs and player, to possibly get a better captures, do a Google search for "clean CED discs" and there's a couple of links about doing that.

After all, they're basically micro grooved records. Because of this, I'd be very cautious about using the reverse play to clean a disc because of the rest of damaging both the arm and the stylus.

I had two CED players back in the day and tried washing a disc. It was really dusty because the carrier isn't sealed all that well. I didn't have and use distilled water and washed it like I would a record under running water. Ruined the disc and IIRC, the stylus too.

Check out TechMoan on YouTube. I know he did a review of CED and VHD and I think he showed cleaning of both.
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  #9  
10-06-2020, 08:45 PM
lingyi lingyi is offline
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Random thought. Have you played your VHD discs? I may have it backwards, but I seem to recall that VHDs were more prone to damage than CEDs because of the higher density grooves and the sleeves. I know that the caddies for CEDs were really tough for what they were, though some later releases had thinner cheaper sleeves.
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  #10  
10-07-2020, 08:17 PM
WestRGB WestRGB is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lingyi View Post
Check out TechMoan on YouTube.
I follow him! He's great at introducing complex technologies to the layman

Quote:
Originally Posted by lingyi View Post
Have you played your VHD discs? I may have it backwards, but I seem to recall that VHDs were more prone to damage than CEDs because of the higher density grooves and the sleeves.
I think you got that backwards. In terms of quality and reliability, Laserdiscs > VHD > CED.

I don't have any VHDs at the moment. That's a future project.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lingyi View Post
Google search for "clean CED discs"
So in my research, it seems basically impossible to "clean" a CED without destroying it. The only recommended way to clean a CED is to play the disc, and let the stylus clean the groove. I tried this with one particularly bad CED with lots of skips, and I do see improvement in that regard! I've attached raw captures of the 1st play and the 3rd play for comparison (for anyone who's interested). While this helps a little with record skips, I don't think it helps with noise, comets, aliasing, etc.

And for those who are interested, this is the script I use to optimize these clips for digital display. As an AVISynth+ amateur, I would love some feedback on this:

Code:
SetFilterMTMode("QTGMC",2)
FFmpegSource2("RAW_3RD_PASS.avi",atrack=1)
ConvertToYV12()
AssumeTFF()
QTGMC(Preset="Slower", ShowNoise=false, EZDenoise=0.7, Edithreads=3)
BilinearResize(720,540)
Crop(10,0,-34,0)
Normalize()
Spline64Resize(720,540)
Prefetch(10)


Attached Files
File Type: avi RAW_1ST _PASS.avi (90.50 MB, 0 downloads)
File Type: avi RAW_3RD_PASS.avi (97.10 MB, 0 downloads)
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  #11  
10-22-2020, 01:04 PM
lingyi lingyi is offline
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Yes, from what I've read it is Laserdisc>VHD>CED. What I was referring to as I believe I've read, and I believe Techmoan talked about his how VHDs were more prone to damage than CEDs because of the technology (pits not grooves as I stated) and the thinner sleeves.

Here's an interesting read on VHDs. http://disclord.tripod.com/vhddiscworld/id3.html
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avisynth, ced, improve, restore, videodisc

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