Quantcast Using Panasonic ES10 DVD as a Passthrough - digitalFAQ Forum
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06-04-2014, 08:28 AM
RABinMS RABinMS is offline
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I've seen references to using the Panasonic ES10 DVD recorder as a passthrough, but want to make sure I understand what that looks like. In this setup are you to use the VHS player in the unit, or use a separate VCR to feed into and out of the Panasonic?

Know this is very basic, and probably has been covered, but just trying to make sure I get it right.

Thanks!
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  #2  
06-04-2014, 10:18 AM
RABinMS RABinMS is offline
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Never mind. Answered my own question by looking at a picture of the unit. Have bought one, but haven't received it yet. Was under the mistaken impression that it included a VHS playback deck and DVD recorder in the same chassis. I now see that that's not the case, so the answer is simple; use a VCR as the source and feed through the Panasonic.
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06-04-2014, 10:45 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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...and capture the VHS source to lossless YUY2 media. I believe the ES10 has tbc active on Line 1 input only. Turn off its DNR playback filter (too aggressive).
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06-05-2014, 09:10 AM
RABinMS RABinMS is offline
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Thanks sanlyn. Haven't received the machine yet, but I was thinking that the reason that I bought it was to USE the DNR filters. Thought I'd read that, although there can be (will be?) some negative effects, they could be useful if there's tearing, etc. I'm already using a Datavideo TBC-1000 so didn't think I needed the Panasonic just for the TBC, but am perfectly happy to be corrected and enlightened on any or all of the above.
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06-05-2014, 01:09 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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I think you might want to research a little into the difference between a full-frame tbc (such as the TBC-1000) and line-level tbc's. Frame tbc's often have little or no effect on flagging (often also called "tearing") and even less effect on line sync errors such as wiggly lines and crooked/bent border edges. The main use for frame tbc's is to bypass most flavors of Macrovision and to ensure constant frame output rates for audio/video sync. Since the TBC-1000 visibly softens images to begin with, you might not like the additional effects of Panny's aggressive DNR -- softening and obscuring of fine detail, motion smearing, posterization effects, banding, sometimes ghost trails. Once these effects are captured, they can't be undone. There are far better denoisers in software; it's best done in post-processing anyway. There's no way to tone down panny's dnr or make it target certain types of noise. It scrubs everything, without mercy. Happily the pannys do have a halfway decent y/c comb filter on their composite input, and it's always "on".

Pannys and Toshibas used as pass-thru almost always ignore Macrovision when used as pass-thru (but they won't record copy-protected sources), so for that purpose you likely won't need the TBC-1000. Pass-thru's also have a kind of minimal frame/sync circuitry for a/v synch, such as it is. You might need it for severely problematic tapes that are too goofy for the pass-thru's corrective circuits. But use it after the ES10's output. If a frame tbc is in the capture chain between your tape player and the pass-thru device input, the pass-thru will detect no errors and will do nothing.

Don't expect tbc pass-thru devices to compete with $5000 tbc's. In fact, don't expect a TBC-1000 or other consumer-priced tbc to compete with pro gear. But they do provide some visible and needed corrections, far better than cheapo capture devices that advertise their fictional "TBC".
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06-06-2014, 11:22 PM
premiumcapture premiumcapture is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
Don't expect tbc pass-thru devices to compete with $5000 tbc's.
What does a $5000 TBC look like? I looked for a while and couldn't find much over a few thousand.
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06-07-2014, 07:40 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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An active pro can enlighten all of us in more detail, but "tbc" is really a rather generic term. It includes things like the line-timing circuits in VCR's (and there are variations on those gizmos as well), to consumer-level units like those we've mentioned, to simple "frame synchronizers", and on up. A bigger investment gets more functionality and correction circuitry, including corrections for line sync, chroma errors and whatnot, as well as often requiring ancillary equipment like calibrators and input/output monitoring scopes. Needless to say, you don't use RCA plugs to connect all this stuff, so even the cables can drive up the price -- and many pros assemble their own cables and connectors with some pricey hardware even for that job. I imagine a 2K unit might be more than enough for a home setup and many shops.
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07-20-2014, 06:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
Frame tbc's often have little or no effect on flagging (often also called "tearing")
"Tearing" is actually the correct technical jargon for this error.
"Flagging" is a layman description.

Quote:
Since the TBC-1000 visibly softens images
A TBC-1000 is a TBC-100 PCI card married to a VP-299 distribution amp. The amp causes softness, not the TBC-100. You can bypass the amp, and this is often discussed on the forum in recent years, thanks to the work of a few creative members.

Quote:
effects of Panny's aggressive DNR -- softening and obscuring of fine detail, motion smearing, posterization effects, banding, sometimes ghost trails. Once these effects are captured, they can't be undone. There are far better denoisers in software;
Just keep in mind that, for some tapes, this is better than the alternative -- tearing. Restoring is about making video better, not making it perfect. This aggressive NR is better than tearing.

Everything else you say is spot-on accurate.

Quote:
What does a $5000 TBC look like? I looked for a while and couldn't find much over a few thousand.
DPS / Leitch / Harris. Look it up.

The "TBC" has genlock, proc amps, etc.

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