Quantcast CQ vs. CQ_VBR ... Very Interesting... - Page 32 - digitalFAQ.com Forums [Archives]
  #621  
02-14-2003, 01:19 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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  #622  
02-14-2003, 02:22 PM
DaDe DaDe is offline
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Okydoky!

Thanks jorel and master kwag! for such a quick answer. I have a question, have you noticed in the earlier scripts an effect wich makes the movie look like windows in 256 colors, but only on dark scenes??? have you??? i did and i hated it, it is not noticeable in the computer but in the TV it does, and makes my encodes look like crap!! of course only on the dark scenes, cause in colored scenes looks beautiful. If you don't understand the meaning of 'like windows in 256' just move the configuration of your screen to 256 colors and put a pretty wallpaper with difuminated colors, i mean with colors changing from dark to light (for example Navy blue to light blue or so).

I hope someone can understand my poor english and give me some help.

Thanks again!!

Saludos,
DaDe.
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  #623  
02-14-2003, 11:45 PM
DaDe DaDe is offline
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IT WAS A VERY STUPID QUESTION???

Please! Somebody!

By the way is this site failing? cause explorer says: "what you want to do with this file?" when i open the main page... it happened in my work and know in home, could it be my isp?

Thanks! Somebodyy please read the post i write before this if someone understood, please!
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  #624  
02-14-2003, 11:51 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Hi Dade,

Did you by chance change your MPEG2DEC.dll

-kwag
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  #625  
02-15-2003, 12:14 AM
DaDe DaDe is offline
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No i did not, why? should i?
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  #626  
02-15-2003, 12:37 AM
rendalunit rendalunit is offline
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DaDe, I know exactly what you're talking about with the blue blocks and I believe that LegalClip() fixes that so that black is black and not blue!
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  #627  
02-18-2003, 11:33 AM
DaDe DaDe is offline
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Nadie me enendio??? Thanks ren, but that's not exactly what i meant i did not know my english was that bad , but here i go again, the movie looks like windows when you reduce the colors in the windows display properties to 256 or less, try it and you will undestand...


Please i need a second opinion. im desperate.

DaDe.
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  #628  
02-18-2003, 11:49 AM
kwag kwag is offline
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Hi Dade,

Try changing your MPEG2DEC.dll. I believe that is the problem. Grab a current version in the new "AviSynthesizer" program, which also contains the DLL's.

-kwag
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  #629  
02-18-2003, 12:35 PM
DaDe DaDe is offline
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I'll try it! but i still have a question, did oyu understood what i wrote before? do you know what i mean? I'll try your advice this afternoon, thanks, by the way this is the link to the avisynthesizer?

http://www.abdn.ac.uk/~u47gb/files/A...003_02_18a.zip

I'll try it, i'l give my opinion in the right thread when i'm done!

Thanks!

DaDe.
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  #630  
02-18-2003, 01:27 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaDe
I'll try it! but i still have a question, did oyu understood what i wrote before?
Yes . I know exactly what you mean, and it all points to the mpeg2dec.dll

-kwag
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  #631  
06-10-2003, 08:16 PM
r6d2 r6d2 is offline
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Hello guys. Reading this thread as per Kwag's suggestion has been, as the title says, very interesting.

I was used to 2 Pass VBR. ToK introduced me to the insides of CQ mode. I have done some tests encoding clips at different bitrate ranges (450, 900, 1800), the same clip with CQ and with 2 Pass VBR.

Then I run Bitrate Viewer and compare not just the average values but a moving average of 250 seconds or so. The trends shows up very clearly, and I was surprised.

In every test I made, VBR(2Pass) quantization on average was about 20% lower than CQ mode. After all, TMPGEnc is taking advantage of the second pass and is optimizing and correctly distributing the bits.

Then my question is... Is it just me? Have you tried this mode and compared?

Or isn't just average Q by itself a good enough "objective" quality measure?
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  #632  
06-11-2003, 12:31 AM
Boulder Boulder is offline
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The average Q is not enough by itself. There are some screenshots in this thread which prove that 2-pass is not as good as CQ (or CQ_VBR). Not to mention it takes twice as long to encode, which can be a real PITA with the latest script
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  #633  
06-11-2003, 07:46 AM
r6d2 r6d2 is offline
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I guessed so, but since Kwag's last intervention in this thread was trying to use MVBR I thought it just might have slipped through...

Anyway, Boulder, would you please point me out to where those pictures are? I tried to search by "VBR" and no luck...

My personal "subjective tests" have not been conclusive, so I would like to see wat am I missing.

And about encode time, I am in the class of "no matter the wait if it implies quality", in spite of PITA.

Many thanks in advance.
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  #634  
06-11-2003, 11:15 AM
Boulder Boulder is offline
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Here's the page where the action begins..browse the next couple of pages and you'll see the discussion and the screenshots too.

http://www.kvcd.net/forum/viewtopic....=asc&start=187
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  #635  
06-11-2003, 06:27 PM
r6d2 r6d2 is offline
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@Boulder,

Thanks a lot. Cristal clear now (I read the whole thread, looked at the pictures, and now I have a profound disbelief on the usefulness of Bitrate Viewer ).

To @Kwag and all,

I have come to a conclusion about what the bottom line seems to be:

The Tables of the Law, or the 10 commandments of encoding any movie in 1 CD using KVCD would be:

0. Encoder: Use TMPGEnc
1. Matrix: Q.Matrix Notch
2. Rate control mode: CQ (use ToK to predict value)
3. Min BR: does not really matter. Use 0.
4. Max BR: 2520
5. GOP: 1-24-2-1-24 (for cartoons 1-12-2-1-15 NTSC, 1-24-2-1-12 PAL)
6. Res: 528x480
7. Stream: MPEG-1 if the average video BR < 1800, MPEG-2 otherwise.
8. Don't detect scene change
9. Use Moviestacker, load the suggested script for KVCDx3 and tweak it to match the "Latest Optimal Script". Use Gripfit and Bicubic resize. Use overscan = 2.
10. Motion search precision: Use High Quality
11. DC component precision: 8 bit
12. Audio: 128 kbps, Joint stereo
13. VBV buffer size: 0 (Auto)
14. Picture spoilage: 0 0
15. No motion search for still picture part by half pixel: Checked
16. Soften block noise: Unchecked
17. Burn as SVCD if your player supports it, else use VCD.
18. File prediction factor: 0.98
19. In NTSC, use Force Film if possible, IVTC if Telecined, and Deinterlace as a last resort.
20. Don't use "Add SVCD scan offsets" nor "Align sequece headers".
21. Use CD size 810 and overburn a minute or so if your CD-Writer supports it. Use 8x at most when overburning.

Well, it turned out being more than 10 anyway.

I wish there were a single sticky which would read something like the above, entitled "Hey, lazy moron", and meaning: "We work hard here. If you want it the easy way, use these settings. You will save reading hundreds if pages where all this is worked out. Now go and encode. Then buy each one of us a beer."

What do you guys think? Are these commandments correct and valid for any movie? Would you please correct the ones that are wrong?

Regards,
r6d2
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  #636  
06-11-2003, 06:52 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Hi r6d2,

A couple of corrections on the latest achievemnts and findings :

"3. Min BR: does not really matter. " Use 0. -> If your player supports going down to 0, by all means use it
Most DVD players have problems below 300Kbps, so we settled for 300 as a safety factor.

"7. Stream: MPEG-1 if the average video BR < 1800, MPEG-2 otherwise." -> I would say up to 2,500, use MPEG-1. Above that, use MPEG-2.

"10. Motion search precision: Use High Quality" -> If you are going to use the new motion adaptive script for AviSynth 2.52, change that to "Motion Estimation". It produces better video with less visible artifacts.

"12. Audio: 128 kbps, Joint stereo" -> Joint stereo is a No No
Use "Dual channel", and you can also go down to 112Kbps if you encode with HeadAC3he. If you encode "Joint Stereo", you will kill "Surround 2" signals, and the sound will be messed up on a Prologic II receiver.

"13. VBV buffer size: 0 (Auto)" -> Don't use auto Use TMPEG's default. It's more compatible.

"15. No motion search for still picture part by half pixel: Checked" -> Uncheck that

Everything else is fine

-kwag
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  #637  
06-11-2003, 07:42 PM
jorel jorel is offline
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the tables of the law

hey boys,

this was great

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  #638  
06-11-2003, 08:29 PM
bigggt bigggt is offline
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What about this one

Quote:
17. Burn as SVCD if your player supports it, else use VCD.
Is this right and if so can someone explain a little more please
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  #639  
06-11-2003, 11:07 PM
mrj03 mrj03 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigggt
What about this one

Quote:
17. Burn as SVCD if your player supports it, else use VCD.
Is this right and if so can someone explain a little more please
I also have a SIMILAR question myself. What are the deciding factors on:

MPEG setting:
VIDEO: Stream type: MPEG-1 / MPEG-2
SYSTEM: Stream type: (4)MPEG-1 / (2)MPEG-2 Settings

THANKS......
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  #640  
06-12-2003, 01:03 AM
r6d2 r6d2 is offline
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@Kwag,

Quote:
Originally Posted by kwag
"3. Min BR: does not really matter. " Use 0. -> If your player supports going down to 0, by all means use it
Most DVD players have problems below 300Kbps, so we settled for 300 as a safety factor.
Uh... Do you happen to have an image to check this? (lazy moron again) .
Quote:
"7. Stream: MPEG-1 if the average video BR < 1800, MPEG-2 otherwise." -> I would say up to 2,500, use MPEG-1. Above that, use MPEG-2.
Interesting...
Quote:
"12. Audio: 128 kbps, Joint stereo" -> Joint stereo is a No No
Use "Dual channel", and you can also go down to 112Kbps if you encode with HeadAC3he. If you encode "Joint Stereo", you will kill "Surround 2" signals, and the sound will be messed up on a Prologic II receiver.
You are right. What about:

12. Audio: 112 kbps Joint stereo for 2 channel input; 128 Dual channel for 5 channel input.

Still a no no
Quote:
"13. VBV buffer size: 0 (Auto)" -> Don't use auto Use TMPEG's default. It's more compatible.
But Kwag... 0 (Auto) is TMPGEnc default! (At least on my Plus 2.5 version) Or you mean "standard" defaults of VCD 40/SVCD 112?
Quote:
"15. No motion search for still picture part by half pixel: Checked" -> Uncheck that
OK... Thanks a lot! :P

Another question... I read somewhere that DC bits must be chosen examining the original VOBs with Bitrate Viewer... If it says 10, use 10. Do you agree?

PD: I guess I will rephrase a little and post something like "A complete lazy moron KVCD settings Guide".
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