Quantcast Avisynth: I Need Anime Encoding Script - Page 2 - digitalFAQ.com Forums [Archives]
  #21  
10-13-2003, 06:46 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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@ CheronAph
I'll post it tonight because I'm at the office right now.

@incredible

A resizer sharpen only the edges of the pictures, not the plan area. IN fact, we should say that Bicubicresize soften the edges that are normally sharpened by bicubic interpolation, where Lanczos doesn't (I guess, not sure). Because it's a mathematical reality that applying bicubic equations leads to sharpening the edges.

If you want you have a version of unfiltered bicubicresize (that means, a bicubic that do not do this softening) in the library bicublinresize there :

http://ziquash.chez.tiscali.fr/
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  #22  
10-13-2003, 06:57 AM
incredible incredible is offline
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Well, I know the "bicubic" algorithms from Photoshop. There its explained that a bicubic algorithm will do an precise "interpolated" resize in comparison to a just "pixel cropped/moved/doubled" resize.

Or does Avisynth got its own definitions

And "Lanczos" .... hmmmm
I did a lot of tests (also with the resizers in the link you posted, thanks ) and by using lanczos instead of bicubic I had to set the values of the following cleaners higher (to handle the plain parts in the movie!) and if not set higher the picture got still noise, cause of the paradoxing-Effect

But I'll test again

Hey Phil, doing Forum Jobs at Work like me?
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  #23  
10-13-2003, 07:15 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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No no, avisynth have the same definition. But "interpolating" means "introducing an error'". After this, all depend on what you decide to do with this error : drop it completly, or try to counterbalance it with the next pixel you have to interpolate (kind of "error diffusion" for make it short). When you arrive on an edge, the algorithm do not have "next pixel" to use to counterbalance the error acumulated from the previous ones. That is where the problems occur.

This are old memories of my studies, so I'm not very sure of anything

For your last point, that sure that Lanczos introduces some artefacts, but my point is "Lanczos > Asharp+Bicubic".
In your case, as you do not use Asharp, that is a different situation. I agree with you.

The problem now : what are you doing if you find the picture too soft
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  #24  
10-13-2003, 07:36 AM
incredible incredible is offline
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In my last post I meant the option "bicubicresize & Asharp(1,2)", sorry for my english.

First bicubic then asharp gave me a well adaptive sharpened, cleaned and still detailed (espec. in hairs, skins etc.) image on tv in comparison to Lanczos.

The pics above are in deed handled by using only bicubic in combination with mergeLuma/Chroma-blur without asharp(). Ok, its looks a little softer but so this 180 minutes movie @ 480x576 fits on one CD-R80 and it appears a very very lot more sharper in comparison to a 352x288 encode, even sharper as a 352x576.
If I got an 120-140min, I remove the Merge... Lines cause of more CQ and shure by doing this it looks even sharper

But testing continues .... as there will release new filters and techniques
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  #25  
10-13-2003, 08:13 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Ok, if I understand well your point :

- Bicubic then asharp = nice image, nice details
- Asharp then Bicubic = image with noises

I do not really see where can be the difference (except if you put some filters between the two lines). But I never tested the first order.
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  #26  
10-13-2003, 08:42 AM
jorel jorel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dialhot
Ok, if I understand well your point :

- Bicubic then asharp = nice image, nice details
- Asharp then Bicubic = image with noises

I do not really see where can be the difference (except if you put some filters between the two lines). But I never tested the first order.
i did (thousands times)

- Bicubic then asharp = more size, less details!

- Asharp then Bicubic = less size, more details and
more contrast !

- Bicubic without Asharp = less size, loss details!

- Lanczos without Asharp = more size(big), more details and
strange artefacts in the edges!



<edited>
oops...i forgot:
my taste...
encrease the resolution to 702x480,
then you don't need asharp or lanczos.
use only bicubic!
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  #27  
10-13-2003, 09:01 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jorel
- Asharp then Bicubic = less size, more details and
more contrast !
And more noise because you sharpen a noisy picture and asharp doesn't do any difference between a "good" and a "bad" pixel.

Quote:
Lanczos without Asharp = more size(big), more details and
strange artefacts in the edges!
If someone can do me a sample of mpeg where these artefacts are really annoying, I take it.
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  #28  
10-13-2003, 09:20 AM
jorel jorel is offline
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Phil,

"and more noise because you sharpen a noisy picture..."
yeah,can be but my sources are clean dvds,then i don't got this problems.


the "strange artefacts" using lanczos seems "moving ants"
in the edges on low resolutions like 480x480 or less.

do you want pictures or little samples with and without lanczos?
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  #29  
10-13-2003, 12:25 PM
incredible incredible is offline
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Wow it seems that this thread is getting a little confused .... but even mor interesting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dialhot
And more noise because you sharpen a noisy picture and asharp doesn't do any difference between a "good" and a "bad" pixel.
Well not definitely, that depends upon the threshold-value in Aharp() I think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dialhot
- Bicubic then asharp = nice image, nice details
- Asharp then Bicubic = image with noises
You forgot to mention the cleaner/denoiser
I meat that if you first use Lanczos (which sharpens the movie and in my opinion it also sharpens to much other things than only the edges) and if after a laczos there will be a temporal or spatial cleaner the work will be a little paradox.

So I meant:

- "bicubic" then "cleaner" then "a little asharp (if really needed and with threshold set only to handle the edges)" = nice image, nice details, sharp

- "lanczos" then cleaner = almost the same noise when using the same values in the cleaner-filter, so we have to rise up the values = maybe less quality in hairs & skins cause of more agressive cleaning values.

- "bicubic" then "cleaner" = nice image, enough details on Tv AND more CQ!

- "bicubic" then "cleaner" then a bit "mergel-uma/chroma-blur" to break the edges = nice image, still enough details on full vertical sizes like 576px (as seen in my pics above) just a touch softer on Tv but a rised CQ when predictioning for example long movies like my 180min sample above

On the other hand, if we use a sharpening with values of asharp(1,4) before resizing, the sharpen advantage can be killed again by the following downscaling.
Ok, maybe we will receive in relation an image condition as before resizing?!
Like a compensation? I don't know, cause every source is different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jorel
Lanczos without Asharp = more size(big), more details and
strange artefacts in the edges!
I can proof this, well artefacts or not but the picture looks a bit overtreated when watching on TV .
I mean if a picture is sharpened to much it will look very good on a pc, well amazing, but a Tv and its interlacing can produce "flickering" when used to much sharpened streams.

And I think we should keep in mind that if our source is for example an 720x576 anamorph DVD/m2v stream we resize "down" to our desired resolution, so its not really necessary to do a sharpen before or after resizing cause we will preserve enough sharpeness when scaling down from a bigger detailed source. The case will be different if we have to "scale up" like Dvix/Xvid sources.

Well IMHO everything depends upon the quality of the source, of someones taste and so on. All this all is only my opinion based upon my experiences and testings but shurely even for me not definitive and thats what I like in here.. the discussion
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  #30  
10-13-2003, 12:30 PM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jorel
yeah,can be but my sources are clean dvds,then i don't got this problems.
Yeah ! I forgot this essential point and was thinking only "theorically" . But you're right

Quote:
do you want pictures or little samples with and without lanczos?
Yes I do, if you can capture that !
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  #31  
10-13-2003, 12:41 PM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by incredible
You forgot to mention the cleaner/denoiser
I do not forgot, and you can see that I was wondering about that point

Quote:
which sharpens the movie and in my opinion it also sharpens to much other things than only the edges
It is not Lanczos that sharpens, but Bicubic that softens ! :banghead:

I often mention a clip I have where the hero has a 2-day beard. Lanczos is the only resizer that does not litteraly shave the actor.
Bicubic isn't only a resizer, it's a Mach 3 razor

Quote:
and if after a laczos there will be a temporal or spatial cleaner the work will be a little paradox.
Less paradoxal than doing that after an asharp, itself done after a softening bicubic. But we can discuss it all the night

Quote:
- "bicubic" then "cleaner" = nice image, enough details on Tv AND more CQ!
Not enought details for me in fact. So I had to use a sharpening trick. That is my goal in using Lanczos. Teh best will be to find the image produced by bicubic sharpen enought. Because Lanczos makes my CQ drop by several points. I know that.

Quote:
On the other hand, if we use a sharpening with values of asharp(1,4) before resizing, the sharpen advantage can be killed again by the following downscaling.
You're right. That's an other reason to not making it this way.

Quote:
Tv and its interlacing can produce "flickering" when used to much sharpened streams.
Find the brakes and stop the train ! I found were is your/mine problem : I have a 100 Hz (the double of the normal PAL frequency) TV set. No flickering at all, like a PC monitor using high refresh frequency.

That perhaps were all is our difference

Quote:
The case will be different if we have to "scale up" like Dvix/Xvid sources.
I never do upscaling.
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  #32  
10-13-2003, 12:55 PM
jorel jorel is offline
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yes friends,you are very clear in your explanations...thanks!
or we have eagles eyes or it depend of the source, don't?

in the end is just a little differences!

.." that depends upon the threshold-value in Aharp() I think."
.."It is not Lanczos that sharpens, but Bicubic that softens ! "
..."I never do upscaling."
yeah!


"... litteraly shave the actor. "
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  #33  
10-13-2003, 02:47 PM
incredible incredible is offline
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@ Dialhot

Quote:
Find the brakes and stop the train ! I found were is your/mine problem : I have a 100 Hz (the double of the normal PAL frequency) TV set. No flickering at all, like a PC monitor using high refresh frequency.
That perhaps were all is our difference
You lucky one, exact thats the point! That will be my next investment a 100Hz living room goal! Maybe Christmas

@ Jorel
Quote:
"... litteraly shave the actor. "
right!
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  #34  
10-14-2003, 08:49 AM
BloodAngel BloodAngel is offline
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You guys are going way off topic , I still haven's solved that stupid problem. Can't i download the right script for the job somewhere?
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  #35  
10-14-2003, 09:06 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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The answer to your question was in the second post of this tread
It seems that your problem isn't to DL the script, but to know what to do with it. For that you can go on the home page of KVCD.net and find guides on the right panel. They'll give you all informations needed to do a KVCD.
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  #36  
10-21-2003, 12:06 AM
CheronAph CheronAph is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dialhot
@ CheronAph
I'll post it tonight because I'm at the office right now.
Well, where is it?
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  #37  
10-21-2003, 12:18 AM
CheronAph CheronAph is offline
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@ incredible

I don´t get it, I used your script,
480x576 mpeg1
bitrates 64 ~ 3000
lenght 98 minutes
audio 128
CQ 63,160
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  #38  
10-21-2003, 12:24 AM
CheronAph CheronAph is offline
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Here´s the script I used, have I done it wrong,

LoadPlugin("E:\-=[ KVCD ]=-\Filters\Avisynth_2.5\MPEG2Dec3.dll")
LoadPlugin("E:\-=[ KVCD ]=-\Filters\Avisynth_2.5\GripFit_YV12.dll")
LoadPlugin("E:\-=[ KVCD ]=-\Filters\Avisynth_2.5\STMedianFilter.dll")
LoadPlugin("E:\-=[ KVCD ]=-\Filters\Avisynth_2.5\undot.dll")
LoadPlugin("E:\-=[ KVCD ]=-\Filters\Avisynth_2.5\VSFilter.dll")

Mpeg2Source("D:\DVDtoKVCD\vts_01.d2v")

undot()
Limiter()
GripCrop(480, 576, overscan=3)
TextSub("D:\DVDtoKVCD\vts_01.srt")
GripSize(resizer="BicubicResize")
STMedianFilter(8, 32, 0, 0 )
MergeChroma(blur(1.50))
MergeLuma(blur(0.1))
GripBorders()
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  #39  
10-21-2003, 12:31 AM
rendalunit rendalunit is offline
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I'm not sure what the topic is here but one little tip is to put the dll's into the PLUGINS directory where Avisynth is installed and then you don't need the 'LoadPlugin' lines in your script
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  #40  
10-21-2003, 01:03 AM
CheronAph CheronAph is offline
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I´ll do that!
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