Doing "A Beautiful mind" now at CQ_VBR=22. We'll see how it comes out


@black prince,
I'm getting mixed results with the C3D filter. I will try your(1,4,6,3,5,2.8,0) values. I also lost detailes on faces when using the default values, so I think lower values like the ones you used are more reasonable to reduce digital noise, while keeping details.

-kwag

@Pacodoni,

Here's some interesting setting you may want to try.

AVISYNTH
C3D=(0,4,4,4,4,2.8,0)

Tmpgenc
CQ_VBR=65
max bitrate = 10000 (largest value)
Min Bitrate = 64

Try this with a one minute clip and check the filesize. You may be
supprised at the quality and the size. I am using this and reducing
the CQ_VBR where it looks good on STD TV.

@Kwag

I understand about testing and agree.

-black prince

Hi black prince.

Only for make it easier, i will call

1 = (1,8,8,8,8,3,0)
2 = (1,4,6,3,5,2.8,0)
3 = (0,4,4,4,4,2.8,0)

Ok, i did these comparisons like this, i went in the eletronics where my friend works and used two equal sets. 2 standard TV's Sony 29' conected to 2 Sony DAV-S300 ( i'm not doing sony commercial ) but i thought to use the same standalone that i have in my house, to have a better notion.

I've tried both config's you gave in the forum 2 and 3 , and, 3 ( that indeed have a better res than the first set that i made on C3D with 1.
Using 3, i could see a blockness reduced, campared to 1 and a little bit compared with 2.
About 1 all we know the story, it made more blocks, but, considering 2 and 3 they make a reducing in blocks.
Well, i get into this results, after all tests.

2 and 3 are better than 1, you realy can see the difference.
Between 2 and 3, 3 is a little better, you can see less blocks.

You're right about it, i enjoyed it, thanks.

I'm trying some configs, so, depending on my results, i post 2 U all.

C Ya

Pacodoni

Well, here's my result of "A beautiful mind" with and without C3D.

These are video stream file size only.
Without: 625,170KB
With: 606,337KB

This was with CQ_VBR set at 22.

The C3D values used were (1,0,0,7,7,3,0)

Explanation follows:

First parameter is matrix selection. Only 0 and 1 available. I used matrix #1

The next two parameters are Spacial Luma Treshold and Spacial Chroma Treshold. To my understanding, these values are of great importance to VHS and other types captures, but not for DVD rips. ( Danger Will Robinson: That is what I think. If I'm wrong, someone correct me ) So I set them to "0".
This has to be verified, but the visual results I got, were better looking than setting these to any value other than 0.

The following two are Temporal parameters. Temporal Luma Treshold and Temporal Chroma Treshold. Here I set both to 7. At 8 or above, I started noticing loss of sharpness. Higher values over 10, you start to see ghosting.

The next parameter is called Temporal influence. I left that value at 3. The recommended value.

The last one is debug, so leave it at 0.

These settings gave me a sharp looking video, while reducing artifacts around objects. Higher values will lower the file size, but at the expense of some sharpness reduction. This was with this particular movie. Different movies will probably need different parameters values, depending on the quality of the material.

-kwag

I have been using ur templates for a while..and they are way too good.

I converted Contact.avi and the film is about 143 minutes and the resulting mpeg was 770 mb which is good because before I was never able to fit to a single CD.

I think I used min bitrate of 300 which could be why I got a bigger size.

CQ = 20
Max = 1500
Min = 300

I can be a tester Kwag ..
PC 1.8Mhz pentium, 256 DDR

Hi all

First of all thanks Kwag for the explanation on the values, it helped a lot !!!!

After reading forums about C3D, I did a lot of encodings using the config, that lots o people said, and i had these results :

Working with these 7 values of C3D



1...... 1,3,4,2,3,2,8,0
2...... 0.28.100.28.100.10.0
3...... 0,4,4,8,8,3,0
4...... 1,12,30,10,10,10,0
5...... 1,18,250,20,80,40,0
6...... 1,0,0,7,7,3,0
7...... 1,4,5,3,4,2

First of all, i agree with KWAG when he mentioned

It really blurs when the value is high, it doesn't get a pretty picture.

In results of the testings, with the two tv sets and two standalones i mentioned, i think that 3 and 6 ( Kwag's config ) still make the big difference.
One thing strange, is that 4, made not a so blur image but have a higher value, so, it confused me a bit, worth a test.
About the others, some blur and some didn't affect the blocks.

If someone has different test/results, let us know

Hope it was helpfull

Pacodoni

@Hi All,

KVCD_LBR Testing

I dropped C3D for now, since lowering its settings dramatically
reduces its ability to compress. Instead, I am focusing on Tmpgenc
settings (i.e. cq_vbr, max bitrate, and min bitrate). As a result of
experimenting with it’s settings, two will remain fixed. Min
bitrate = 64 and max bitrate = 10000 (largest value this field can hold)
My test showed me that the higher I set max bitrate the filesize keep
decreasing in size without any picture quality loss. This left me with
cq_vbr and avs script to get the best picture quality from. I am using
Tmpgenc batch processing where I save a project file for each increase
of cq_vbr. I incremented cq_vbr by 5 (i.e. 20,25,30,35,etc) and save it
as a project. I change my avs script to select file clips of one minute
using trim(starting frame,ending frame) and add any filters to test
for compression. This way I can make a change in one place and
then test the effect on each increment of cq_vbr. I chose 800mb
CD as a target, where 700mb will be used for video and 100mb for
audio. Using “U571” as and example, the movie is 116 minutes. I
picked a clip that is full of action (i.e. water, explosions, etc.) because
this will use more bitrates. Now I divide 700mb (video) / 116 min (time)
= 6.0344mb per minute. From my test avs script results, I find the
cloest filesize per minute and get the cq_vbr setting from it. In this
case it’s 35. I view this .m1v clip with WMP and decide if I want more
picture quality by removing credits. Here’s a sample of my tests for one minute
clip:
.
.
cq_20.m1v…………3,668KB
cq_25.m1v…………4,509KB
cq_30.m1v…………5,290KB
cq_35.m1v…………5,970KB
cq_40.m1v…………6,553KB
cq_45.m1v…………7,051KB
cq_50.m1v…………7,484KB

When the entire movie is encoded the picture quality is great and I’ve used most
of the 700mb.

I need suggestions about this method of testing and improvements.

Thanx

-black prince

Kwag,

Hand my chance to run test with Har's War, had sync problems all through ou the movie. Any reason for this? Never had problme sprior to the new 352x240 Plus.

Aloha
Bud

Hi Bud,

Do you have sync problems viewing on WMP?. If you do, then the mpeg is out of sync.

-kwag

Did starship troopers ... got a size of 874 mb Film was not widescreen will try again with Min = 0 and Max = 100000 and let u'll know the size. Using direct Tmpeg ( no FitCD )

Hi Nat123,

Starship Troopers (1997) is 130 minutes wide screen (16:9).

1>Use FitCD and set Destination as VCD, TV-overscan as 1.

2>Edit avs script and uncomment TemporalSmoother(2,2)

3>Tmpgenc use KVCD-LBR, change min bitrate=64, max bitrate=
.....10000 and CQ_VBR to 40. Select video only. Now encode.

4>Check filesize of video. It should be less than 800.

5>Play movie using WMP to see if you like the picture quality.

6>If the filesize is under 700mb try increasing CQ_VBR by 5.
....Remember to save at least 80mb for audio.

I hope this helps

-black prince

Hi Everyone,

Just finished "U571". It the best quality KVCD-LBR I've produced
up to this date. I have decided to make KVCD-LBR my traveling
videos only and KVCDx3 for stand-alone DVD player at home.
I prefer two sets. One for work and another at home. They
are now my favorite KVCD templets. My testing procedures are
getting great results with KVCD-LBR and I going to try it with
KVCDx3. There are movies where I am not using the space on
CD's as efficiently as possible. Great work Kwag.

-black prince

Kwaag,

Had the sync problem, after I recorded it and played back on my Pioneer DV 343. Cant' test now, will have to wait unit all my things arrive, it's hell not having my own system up.....on the road now


Aloha

Bud

Kwag,

I just encoded Imposter last night, and all I can say is WOW!!!! (not the movie, the video quality)
Reading through this thread, I was inspired to experiment with c3d.

I used the LBR template, and your c3d settings (the 1,0,0,etc)
and set the bitrates based on what FitCD gave me.

I actually took the bitrates that fitcd spit out, lowred the min to 500
and took the left over and put it in the maximum. ended up around
500/3350. I also brought the cq up to 40.

This looks great my my Sony dvd player. I actually think it looks better than the plus template at the same resolution.

Just wanted to share my results.

-Jeff

A small tip: if you want to sharpen the picture and want to encode a lot faster than with the Sharpen function, try UnFilter by Donald Graft. It's very fast and effective as well. My estimate is that UnFilter(15,15) would be about the same as Sharpen(.1) . I suppose that you can find the filter at least from doom9.

Sorry to pop an old thread back up but I was reading through and thought I should point out that UnFilter is by Tom Barry, not Donald Graft.

It's designed to compensate for over-zealous smoothing/sharpening during source authoring.