Hi everyone,
I'm currently making a KVCD from 101 Dalmatians.
I get a CQ=61 @480x576 MPEG2
Movie duration is only 76 min so why CQ is so low?
Should I change max GOP to 12 instead of 25 as I read somewhere?

Paolo

Hi Paolo
Your GOP length should be set to 24 (not 25).
Don't change it unless you want to decrease it if you notice "picture cintilation" effect.
I assume you're using Tmpgenc with AVS script but there's really not much we can do if you don't post your script and encoder used so we be sure of what method you're using.
Also such low CQ on this kind of res.
Is your movie full screen or widescreen?
Cheers

__________________
Rui

101 Dalmatians, the cartoon ? It is fulscreen if I"m not wrong. So that is quite "normal".

For a cartoons I recommand usage of one or both of these lines :

Thanks to both.
Yeah I'm backing up the cartoon and actually it is fulscreen

Thanks for the tip about Dup() but regarding max GOP I read a post by Kwag in this section recommending to use the value 15 for cartoons, so what should I do?

Paolo

12 for PAL 15 for NTSC23.976 and 18 for NTSC29.970
(if I'm not wrong)

Hi, I enclose my log as requested by rds_correia.
As you can see, even with the additional filters provided by Phil, I ended up with a CQ around 61.
I haven't check the KVCD on my player yet. I will let you know how it looks like.

Paolo

WNASPI32.DLL 4.71.2.0
--------------------------------------------------------
- 26/01/2005 17:46:55
- DVD to SVCD Conversion
- DVD2SVCD ver. 1.2.2 build 1
--------------------------------------------------------
Initializing
- C:\1 101\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_0.IFO
- C:\1 101\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_1.vob
- C:\1 101\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_2.vob
- C:\1 101\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_3.vob
- C:\1 101\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_4.vob
- C:\1 101\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_5.vob
Initializing finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 26/01/2005 17:46:58
- DVD2AVI
--------------------------------------------------------
Creating DVD2AVI INI file:
- C:\Programmi\DVD2SVCD\DVD2AVI\DVD2AVI.INI

Variable settings:
iDCT_Algorithm: 32-bit SSE MMX

Executing DVD2AVI.
Executing DVD2AVI. Commandline:
"C:\Programmi\DVD2SVCD\DVD2AVI\DVD2AVI.exe" -CS=2 -YR=1 -OM=0 -EXIT -OF=[C:\Programmi\DVD2SVCD\Movie2\DVD2AVI_Project_file] -IF=[C:\1 101\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_1.vob,C:\1 101\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_2.vob,C:\1 101\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_3.vob,C:\1 101\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_4.vob,C:\1 101\VIDEO_TS\VTS_01_5.vob]
Framerate: 25000
DVD2AVI processing done.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 26/01/2005 17:49:04
- Free on drive C: 10074.50 mb
- AUDIO Extraction
--------------------------------------------------------
Found AC3 stream id: 0x82
Filename: C:\Programmi\DVD2SVCD\Movie2\Extracted_audio_1.ac3
Audio1 delay: 0 ms
Audio extraction finished.


Encoding Audio. Filename: C:\Programmi\DVD2SVCD\Movie2\Extracted_audio_1.ac3
Executing BeSweet. Commandline:
"C:\Programmi\DVD2SVCD\BeSweet\BeSweet.exe" -core( -input "C:\Programmi\DVD2SVCD\Movie2\Extracted_audio_1.ac 3" -output "C:\PROGRA~1\DVD2SVCD\Movie2\Encoded_audio_1.m p2" -logfile "C:\PROGRA~1\DVD2SVCD\Movie2\Encoded_audio_1.l og" ) -azid( -L -3db -l 0db -c normal -s surround -g max ) -shibatch( --rate 44100 ) -2lame( -e -b 128 -m d )
Audio conversion of C:\Programmi\DVD2SVCD\Movie2\Extracted_audio_1.ac3 finished.

Audio conversion finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 26/01/2005 17:59:38
- Free on drive C: 9930.03 mb
- Converting Pictures
--------------------------------------------------------
Converting: C:\Programmi\DVD2SVCD\DefaultChangeCD.bmp
Finished converting pictures
--------------------------------------------------------
- 26/01/2005 17:59:46
- Free on drive C: 9929.23 mb
- Video Encoding using TMPGEnc
--------------------------------------------------------
- Encoding C:\Programmi\DVD2SVCD\Movie2\ChangeCDPicture.bmp.a vs
Executing TMPGEnc. Commandline:
"C:\Programmi\Pegasys Inc\TMPGEnc Plus 2.5\TMPGEnc.exe" "C:\Programmi\DVD2SVCD\Movie2\TMPGEnc_Project_file .tpr" /Encode /Close
Video Encoding finished.

- Encoding Test Clip C:\Programmi\DVD2SVCD\Movie2\AviSynth_Script_file_ CQ_TEST.avs
Executing TMPGEnc. Commandline:
"C:\Programmi\Pegasys Inc\TMPGEnc Plus 2.5\TMPGEnc.exe" "C:\Programmi\DVD2SVCD\Movie2\TMPGEnc_Project_file .tpr" /Encode /Close
Video Encoding finished.

- Encoding Test Clip C:\Programmi\DVD2SVCD\Movie2\AviSynth_Script_file_ CQ_TEST.avs
Wanted: 747426106 (729908kb)
Predicted: 731491396 (714347kb) Using CQ Value: 60.00
Calculated next CQ Value: 60.60
Executing TMPGEnc. Commandline:
"C:\Programmi\Pegasys Inc\TMPGEnc Plus 2.5\TMPGEnc.exe" "C:\Programmi\DVD2SVCD\Movie2\TMPGEnc_Project_file .tpr" /Encode /Close
Video Encoding finished.

- Encoding Test Clip C:\Programmi\DVD2SVCD\Movie2\AviSynth_Script_file_ CQ_TEST.avs
Wanted: 747426106 (729908kb)
Predicted: 731870382 (714717kb) Using CQ Value: 60.60
Calculated next CQ Value: 61.20
Executing TMPGEnc. Commandline:
"C:\Programmi\Pegasys Inc\TMPGEnc Plus 2.5\TMPGEnc.exe" "C:\Programmi\DVD2SVCD\Movie2\TMPGEnc_Project_file .tpr" /Encode /Close
Video Encoding finished.

- Encoding Test Clip C:\Programmi\DVD2SVCD\Movie2\AviSynth_Script_file_ CQ_TEST.avs
Wanted: 747426106 (729908kb)
Predicted: 737821676 (720529kb) Using CQ Value: 61.20
Calculated next CQ Value: 61.57
Executing TMPGEnc. Commandline:
"C:\Programmi\Pegasys Inc\TMPGEnc Plus 2.5\TMPGEnc.exe" "C:\Programmi\DVD2SVCD\Movie2\TMPGEnc_Project_file .tpr" /Encode /Close
Video Encoding finished.

- Encoding Test Clip C:\Programmi\DVD2SVCD\Movie2\AviSynth_Script_file_ CQ_TEST.avs
Wanted: 747426106 (729908kb)
Predicted: 743462036 (726037kb) Using CQ Value: 61.57
Calculated final CQ Value: 61.57
- Encoding C:\Programmi\DVD2SVCD\Movie2\AviSynth_Script_file. avs
StreamSectors: 833937188
AudioSectors: 74305252
VideoPAPO: 11767104
ScanOffsetBytes: 6796
SeqAligningBytes: 431926
DVDBytes: 0
VideoEndHeader: 4
SubtitleSectors: 0
EmptySectors: 238.00
PictureSectors: 0.00
PureMPEGStream: 747426105.89
Seconds: 4582.00
CalcMPEGStream: 747426105.89
Frames: 114400
CDSize: 800.00
Number of CDs: 1
Cut point 795.00
Using CQ Value: 61.57
Aspect Ratio: 4:3 (No borders, encoded as 4:3)

---AVS Begin---
LoadPlugin("C:\PROGRA~1\DVD2SVCD\AVISYN~1.5PL\Mpeg 2dec\MPEG2D~1.DLL")
MPEG2Source("C:\PROGRA~1\DVD2SVCD\Movie2\DVD2AV~1. D2V")
nf=0
GripCrop(480, 576, overscan=1, source_anamorphic=true, dest_anamorphic=false)
GripSize(resizer="BiCubicResize")
Undot()
Asharp(1, 4)
STMedianFilter(3, 3, 1, 1 )
MergeChroma(blur(1.5)
MergeLuma(blur(0.1))
SwitchThreshold = (Width<=352) ? 4 : (Width<=480) ? 3 : 2
ScriptClip(" nf = YDifferenceToNext()" +chr(13)+ "unfilter( -(fmin(round(nf)*2, 100)), -(fmin(round(nf)*2, 100)) ).TemporalSoften( fmin( round(2/nf), 6), round(1/nf), round(3/nf) , 1, 1) ")
GripBorders()
function fmin(int f1, int f2) { return (f1<f2) ? f1 : f2 }
function ConvertToYUY2(clip c){ return isYV12(c) ? c : convertToYV12(c) }
Dup(threshold=3,maxcopies=3,blend=false)
fluxsmoothST(3,15)
----AVS End----

Executing TMPGEnc. Commandline:
"C:\Programmi\Pegasys Inc\TMPGEnc Plus 2.5\TMPGEnc.exe" "C:\Programmi\DVD2SVCD\Movie2\TMPGEnc_Project_file .tpr" /Encode /Close
Video Encoding finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 26/01/2005 21:15:17
- Free on drive C: 9989.89 mb
- Converting Pictures from ES to PS
--------------------------------------------------------
Saving bbMPEG settings: C:\Programmi\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\default.ini
--------------------------------------------------------
- 26/01/2005 21:15:20
- Free on drive C: 9989.89 mb
- Converting Pictures from ES to PS
--------------------------------------------------------
Saving bbMPEG settings: C:\Programmi\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\default.ini

Executing RunbbMPEG. Commandline:
"C:\Programmi\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\RunbbMPEG.exe" "C:\Programmi\DVD2SVCD\Movie2\ChangeCDPicture.bmp. mpg"
--------------------------------------------------------
- 26/01/2005 21:15:23
- Free on drive C: 9989.87 mb
- Converting Pictures from ES to PS
--------------------------------------------------------
Saving bbMPEG settings: C:\Programmi\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\default.ini
--------------------------------------------------------
- 26/01/2005 21:15:26
- Free on drive C: 9989.87 mb
- Multiplexing and cutting
--------------------------------------------------------
Saving bbMPEG settings: C:\Programmi\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\default.ini
Offset in Seconds: 1
Executing bbMPEG.
Variable Settings:
Movie offset: 1 seconds
Cut point: 795 mb

Executing RunbbMPEG. Commandline:
"C:\Programmi\DVD2SVCD\bbMPEG\RunbbMPEG.exe" "C:\Programmi\DVD2SVCD\Movie2\bbMPEG_Muxed_File.mp g"
Multiplexing and cutting finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 26/01/2005 21:24:55
- Free on drive C: 9195.08 mb
- Determining length of audio
--------------------------------------------------------
Analyzing: C:\Programmi\DVD2SVCD\Movie2\bbMPEG_Muxed_File00.m pg
4497.607 seconds C:\Programmi\DVD2SVCD\Movie2\bbMPEG_Muxed_File00.m pg
Analyzing finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 26/01/2005 21:25:50
- Free on drive C: 9195.07 mb
- Creating CD-Images using VCDXBuild
--------------------------------------------------------
- No. of chapters to create: 19

CD image #1: CD_Image_File_CD1.bin

Executing VCDXBuild. Commandline:
"C:\Programmi\DVD2SVCD\VCDImager\VCDXBuild.exe " --verbose --cue-file="C:\PROGRA~1\DVD2SVCD\Movie2\CD_Image_File_CD 1.cue" --bin-file="C:\PROGRA~1\DVD2SVCD\Movie2\CD_Image_File_CD 1.bin" "C:\PROGRA~1\DVD2SVCD\Movie2\VCDXBU~1.XML"
Image creation finished.

--------------------------------------------------------
- 26/01/2005 21:29:32
- Free on drive C: 8389.27 mb
- Conversion done!
--------------------------------------------------------

In fact the script you use is not very convenient.
As I never use the MA script I can only advice you to test the script I used for all the Disney I did recently :

Note: did you check in DVD2SVCD preview that the source is not interlaced ?

function ConvertToYUY2(clip c){ return isYV12(c) ? c : convertToYV12(c) }

should be replaced by a simple ConverttoRGB24() if TMPGEnc is used. If conversion to YUY2 is done, TMPGEnc will do another from YUY2->RGB24

My 2 cents: 101 Dalmatians is a specially tough cartoon to compress because you have plenty of little black spots moving everywhere. By the time a bunch of the little dogs start running across the screen, it's plenty of blocks

Also the backgrounds are painted in a very unique style, they used almost a single colour (with different shades) for each scene while the edges are very sharp (and the colours often "bleed" outside the edges).

But on the other hand, it's a short film.

In all my previous encoding (normal movies) I never deinterlace (given the source is a DVD and according to my poor knowledge a DVD is never interlaced) and I never convert color.

Should I learn something new?

DVD2SVCD adds automatically a ConvertToYUY2() in front of the script and you can't prevent it ! That is why I found the trick to override the function by an other one that in fact, does nothing (at least for a DVD or Divx source. I don't care about DV sources)

Ah, that's clever

So if you use TMPGEnc to encode, function ConvertToYUY2(clip c){ return isYV12(c) ? c : convertToYV12(c) } should be replaced by function ConvertToYUY2(clip c){ return isYV12(c) ? c : convertToRGB24(c) }

Not possible. The ConvertToYUY2 is the first line of the script and I'm not sure all filters involved work in RGB. And BTW, it will become sooo looonnggg...

That's not too clever from DVD2SVCD then

Hmm, according to the posts I've read, the conversion line should be the last item in the script. Have you tried the latest D2S version? I could do it tomorrow when I have the time and see what kind of a script it spits out.

EDIT: Now I remember. You can disable the ConverttoYUY2 being added (or force it to use ConverttoRGB24), it's in the advanced options, you need to have the advanced mode on. Don't have D2S installed right now, but you should be able to find it easily.

I did not do since 1.2.1 I guess. A long long time ago.

But if the convert is at last line... it doesn't have any means . Except when you use subtitles (the filter provided by avisynth for decoding subtitles works only in YUY2).

The specific colorspace is required by the encoder, that's why it should most of the time be at the end of the script. The latest D2S should be able to use YV12 till the end, the subs will be a problem though unless someone has added YV12 support to the subtitler. Or maybe the program uses Gabest's vsfilter.dll these days? I'll have to check it out just for the hell of it tomorrow.