Quantcast FFmpeg vs FFvfw vs Mencoder ? - Page 14 - digitalFAQ.com Forums [Archives]
  #261  
03-12-2004, 06:27 AM
bilu bilu is offline
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My filesize gains with my settings, still to be perfected as digitall.doc said but the quality is pretty good for a TV output at least:

Movie -> Before -> After
Code:
abyss.vob.m2v 	  -> 134.916.216 -> 36.111.221
amelie.vob.m2v     -> 103.337.734 -> 24.185.169
anna.vob.m2v  	  -> 164.022.016 -> 61.234.049
chap15.vob.m2v     -> 329.337.333 -> 114.314.987
chap2.vob.m2v  	 -> 223.575.480 -> 72.046.802
indiana.m2v  	   -> 218.904.532 -> 53.085.408
matrix.m2v  	    -> 122.009.328 -> 38.174.780
nemesis.m2v  	   -> 219.144.332 -> 62.979.247
anime_telecine.m2v -> 30.879.651  -> 11.448.379
hybrid.vob.m2v     -> 31.890.606  -> 6.039.997 
interlaced.vob.m2v -> 46.741.160  -> 28.684.066
telecine1.vob.m2v  -> 12.265.422  -> 3.647.157 
telecine2.vob.m2v  -> 16.380.030  -> 11.366.393
As you can see the less compressed streams were

telecine2.vob.m2v (69%)
interlaced.vob.m2v (61%)

The telecine2.vob.m2v file is the montain panning from the beginning of LOTR 2 and interlaced.vob.m2v is an intro from Neo Genesis Evangelion (the nasty anime I've been ranting about).

As for the rest I'm happy with the quality vs filesize relation

Bilu
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  #262  
03-12-2004, 06:56 AM
digitall.doc digitall.doc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bilu
This will be a part of my next phase: learn authoring and testing on standalones

BTW, did you test with or without the Notch matrix?

Bilu
Hmmm... I see maybe I make questios too fast, sorry if it bothers you.
The jumpy playback happened with PowerDVD playing directly from harddrive. Still didn't burn it to media. I just burned to media some tests I did with ffvfw, and later some more tests I did with mencoder (my settings, the same your old ones)... mencoder looked great, very clear and stable image, nice colors (even I didn't use then yuvcsp), liked it a lot. But I'm still trying to improve the settings because I get too big filesizes to fit 2 films with 2 audio tracks each, per media.
And yes, when I tried your settings I made use of nitch matrix. What player do you use to see your m2v files on PC?
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  #263  
03-12-2004, 07:03 AM
bilu bilu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digitall.doc
What player do you use to see your m2v files on PC?
Any player, having this MPEG-2 DShow demultiplexer installed:
http://www.elecard.com/download/index.shtml

I also can play using:
http://download.videolan.org/pub/vid....7.1-win32.exe

I prefer VLC since it doesn't add any post-processing and is nice to see the interlaced patterns.


Bilu
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  #264  
03-12-2004, 08:20 AM
bilu bilu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bilu
Differences in filesizes (very small interlaced PAL encode, dark scene from The Abyss):

Without Notch: 6177 KB
With Notch: 4993 KB
Using alt + interlaced Notch matrix: 4953KB

On another file (telecine1.vob.m2v):
progressive notch: 3562 KB
interlaced notch: 3559 KB

Haven't noticed quality differences. Will now test over a progressive stream.

EDIT: http://www1.mplayerhq.hu/pipermail/m...ry/000785.html

Quote:
Normally, interlacing wreaks havoc with the encoder's ability to compress well, but lavc has an ildct parameter for dealing with storing interlaced video a bit better.
So maybe ildct is the key here

EDIT2: Progressive streams get bigger with interlaced notch matrix (amelie.vob.m2v).

Interlaced Notch: 24197 KB
Progressive Notch: 23619 KB

Bilu
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  #265  
03-12-2004, 09:46 AM
bilu bilu is offline
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Avg Bitrates & Quantizers for my settings:

Movie -> Original -> Mencoded
Code:
abyss.vob.m2v 	  -> 3503/4.73  -> 940/3.40 
amelie.vob.m2v     -> 3990/2.69  -> 938/4.02 
anna.vob.m2v  	  -> 4911/9.92  -> 1834/4.49 
chap15.vob.m2v     -> 5705/8.43  -> 1980/4.72 
chap2.vob.m2v  	 -> 5413/7.52  -> 1743/4.05 
indiana.m2v  	   -> 6847/2.58  -> 1661/3.53 
matrix.m2v  	    -> 5080/4.74  -> 1587/3.46 
nemesis.m2v  	   -> 4964/3.36  -> 1426/3.51 
anime_telecine.m2v -> 3460/6.06  -> 984/4.42
hybrid.vob.m2v     -> 6710/2.88  -> 1203/4.08
interlaced.vob.m2v -> 4453/7.48  -> 2729/4.74 
telecine1.vob.m2v  -> 6850/7.86  -> 1631/4.23 
telecine2.vob.m2v  -> 3320/10.18 -> 1840/3.81
Notch matrix + scplx_mask + hqdn3d played wonders here

And not even the nastiest stream got over 3000 Kbps

EDIT: Just had a look with a friend of mine that encodes with CCE over my sample encodes and then showed him the bitrates. He got really impressed

The main obstacle that he points now is that you can't force keyframes in Mencoder and he needs that for chapters.

Already posted it here
http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp....yer.user/27239

but still no answer


Bilu
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  #266  
03-12-2004, 11:32 AM
rds_correia rds_correia is offline
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Hi Bruno,
I'm a bit puzzled with the chapters question...
Regularly it's not up to the encoder to save the chapters while encoding.
That's usualy a authoring process, thus treated by the authoring tool your buddy uses.
I'm not a big fan of chapters but I could swear I already burnt a mencoder stream
with chapters using IfoEdit as my authoring tool.
I'll try to check that later tonight but as I said I'm 99% sure I already did it.
Cheers
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  #267  
03-12-2004, 11:36 AM
rds_correia rds_correia is offline
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Off topic,
Tonight I'll try to compile latest mplayer/mencoder for win32 with MinGW and MSYS for the 1st time.
I would like to have it compiled on both the encoder and the player since the player is also quite
fast and I'm starting to get fed up with PowerDVD/others because they're really slow
Anybody available to give me a hand if I run into trouble?
Cheers
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  #268  
03-12-2004, 12:05 PM
bilu bilu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rds_correia
I would like to have it compiled on both the encoder and the player since the player is also quite
fast and I'm starting to get fed up with PowerDVD/others because they're really slow
Or you can try VideoLAN Client (posted a link above)
I'm trying to avoid Mplayer compiling, I think it can get really nasty with drivers and all that.

Bilu
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  #269  
03-12-2004, 12:07 PM
bilu bilu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rds_correia
I'm not a big fan of chapters but I could swear I already burnt a mencoder stream with chapters using IfoEdit as my authoring tool.
Problem is that chapter point to a framenumber, and that frame must be a keyframe to play properly (like every time you do Fast-forward). I'll try to check what IfoEdit does.


Bilu
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  #270  
03-12-2004, 09:40 PM
vhelp vhelp is offline
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hay rds,

I know what you mean about PDVD. Don't get me wrong. I love it, because
it properly displays any of my 16:9 encodes, even those w/ MEn. But, I've
ben experiementing with mplayer's DOS command-line mode player. For
some reason, it seems to be more "tuned" to quality of MEn encoded MPEGs.
.
.
I don't get it, but at least to my eyes, mplayer has an even more fantastic
MPEG output view than PDVD (or even WDVD) but the only problem I have
w/ mplyar's DOS command-line mpeg viewer, is that it's very limited in it's
ability to "control" it during play. Keys are very tricky to work, and it's not
very user-friendly.
.
.
I'm wondering if there is another alternative, but still using mplayer, because
of it's quality output. I've ben using it after MEn encodes my source (via
the .BAT script) - - this gives me a quicklyier way of judging encodes w/out
having to resort to lounching up PDVD.., and I could just do a quick 10 sec
encode test - - making the MEn encoding tests that much faster. I just wish
mplayer had a repeat, because this way, I could watch it enough times to
bet a better judge of my MEn encodes.
.
.
Oh, and by the way, mplayer's DOS command-line player plays my 16:9
encodes properly too.

It would be great if it were possible to create a tiny GUI for mplayer's player, but I wouldn't know how to handle those fussy keys. Well, anywasy..

If you asked me, mplayer's player vs. PDVD, I think I would go w/ mplayer's
for sure

Well, thats the way I see it, Cheers..
-vhelp
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  #271  
03-13-2004, 03:27 AM
bilu bilu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vhelp
It would be great if it were possible to create a tiny GUI for mplayer's player, but I wouldn't know how to handle those fussy keys.
Have a look at the VideoLAN Client. It doesn't do any postprocessing by default, it's as Unix-based as mplayer, it's lightweight and the most important advantage over any Windows Mplayer GUI: this one has been around for a while and it's stable.

On the docs I couldn't find any keys and it has no audio control options, but the bob deinterlacing works very good with PAL and NTSC sources.


Cheers,
Bilu
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  #272  
03-13-2004, 04:03 PM
bilu bilu is offline
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( Everybody has been terribly quiet today ... )

Bilu
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  #273  
03-13-2004, 06:43 PM
digitall.doc digitall.doc is offline
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Well, bilu, friend.
Today, here in Spain, we're all very sad for what happened in Madrid.
Just came to see how was everything, but now closing.
Tomorrow maybe better day.
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  #274  
03-13-2004, 07:07 PM
bilu bilu is offline
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It showed us that no one is free of attacks after messing with terrorists. I hope my country doesn't share the same fate during the big events we'll have this summer...

I usually don't watch TV so the news stroke me a bit late.
I don't think Aznar will win after the "ETA or Al-Qaeda" doubts: if he said it was Al-Qaeda from the beginning the people who have said it was a wrong decision to become part of the US-GB external affairs, but leaving the doubt in the air because of elections is even more outrageous.
I've been watching the people in Madrid outraged with that.

I never seen such an event raising political questions so quickly.
It almost seems that people are more angry with Aznar than Al-Qaeda.

Just a small rant, hope I didn't offend anyone.
We all share your pains, Madrid.

Bilu
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  #275  
03-13-2004, 11:45 PM
jorel jorel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digitall.doc
Well, bilu, friend.
Today, here in Spain, we're all very sad for what happened in Madrid.
digital.doc,
like bilu posted:
"We all share your pains, Madrid."
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  #276  
03-14-2004, 11:07 AM
rds_correia rds_correia is offline
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Hi everybody,
As bilu I only noticed the news too late.
I've been working too many hours these days...
I feel so very sad.
This is not the 1st time it happens in Spain but it's the 1st time it happens with so many innocent
civilians being caught in the attack.
It's time to put some thought to the subject and take the proper measures so that it doesn't strike all of us again.
For some time we will all be with the Spanish people as we are with all those that
suffer with terrorism all over the world.
Let's hope we find those responsable for these coward acts and have them locked behind bars.
As Jorel has just said, remember: We ALL share your pain.
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  #277  
03-14-2004, 02:31 PM
marcellus marcellus is offline
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I can't imagine how coward somebody have to be to do such thing to innocent people only to sustain his ideas and interests. As always, is easyer to be brave when nobody can resist...
Today, 14 march, was national mourning day in my country. 8 romanian people were killed, 8 are still missing and 76 wounded in Madrid. This year is election year in our country too and our government shamelessly tries to take political advantage on this tragedy too (as always) instead taking care that our people have a decent life here and not having to work in foreign countries for a piece of bread. Is easyer to bark at a microphone in front of a TV camera than do something real. But I guess every time the weak, the poor and the innocent pay the bill of politicians and other brainless insanity and immorality. This is the core of the problem.
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  #278  
03-15-2004, 11:38 AM
digitall.doc digitall.doc is offline
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Hi friends,
I thank you a lot your kind words and your warm support. THANX.
Just when pain begins to diminish, some begin to think: what's next?.
And that's what terrorism is supposed to be for: everybody feeling insecure, and thinking where next bomb will be, and how do I send my son to school...
Show must go on.

So, I'm back to mencoding again. Bilu, I'm impressed by your improvements. I tried again to play a file I did following you're method, and with mediaplayer and in TMPGEnc preview, it plays smoothly, no "jumps". I guess that the not-b-frames-problem is just with PowerDVD, since it played with other players. I still have to burn this file and see if it plays in my standalone.
As you know I'm trying to find my way. But as I don't have you're knowledge, I don't make much improvements. I'll explain: the image I get is very nice, I like it much more than any other encoding I did with TMPGenc, CCE or (sorry) your command/settings. The problem is of course file size, still big (I could just fit 2 films with 1 audio track each in a DVD-R, with my method)
Is my command/settings way so different from yours?, no, just a little. I'm trying to reproduce with mencoder the way I'm accostumed to encode with other encoders, that is, constant quality with VBR (not making use of vqscale due to too-high-bitrates issue). If I understand well your command/settings, your way is like a constant bitrate-variable quality, where whenever it's needed the encoder raises bitrate but then go as low as it can (vbitrate=vrc_minrate), and quality is kept between 2 and 10. I know it should be better to focus on your way, more developed, instead of wasting time (and efforts) on other ways. But I like more the results I get with my way, if I find the way to make filesize smaller (not too bad by now: I started with a encoded filesize of 51908 Kb, and know the same sample dropped to 33633 Kb, without visual loss to my eyes. But for this sample, with your settings, file size is 27424 Kb. Don't know if with my way I can go so down without loosing quality... )
What I'm trying to do is using vrc_eq=tex (vqcomp=1) instead of vqcomp=0. And I want to see if I can keep trellis without getting blocks (till now I could). I still keep cbp, naq, mbd=2 and mv=0. And will try other trellis related functions (there are some new). My vbitrate is low (=1500) and maybe I will be able to raise it in smaller films (StarWars II lasts 137 min aprox); and mencoder tries to keep close to it. My vrc_maxrate is 5000, not needed more thank's to notch matrix.
To sum up, I'm just trying to make a constant quality with VBR encoding, making use of all the quality settings mencoder puts at my hands. For SKVCD, I'm sure your way is the one; for KDVD, not sure at all (sorry, I admire you, don't misunderstand me), I'm still testing other ways to get "better" (if possible ) results. But without your (bilu, and everybody) help I'm a little lost.

... buf, too long post, and I'm afraid difficult to follow
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  #279  
03-15-2004, 12:23 PM
bilu bilu is offline
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Post your command-line, the one that gives you less filesize but still pleases your eyes. Maybe I have ideas

My settings without denoiser and reducing or removing scplx_mask would be a start...

What I like so much about my setting is that not only does it provide very cool bitrates for the resulting quality, but it's also fast. So if we can remove/change settings from my command-line without adding trellis, mbd=2, etc. and achieve a result you like then we can garantee a fast command-line too

Cheers,
Bilu
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  #280  
03-15-2004, 12:50 PM
digitall.doc digitall.doc is offline
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Yes, bilu, and I forgot to say that: your way is faster.
To test your command I already removed the denoiser, since I feed mencoder with an avisynth script (through makeavis: I hope we''l manage to improve avisynth-mencoder relationship once ), and while with my way it goes at 4-5 fps, with yours it goes at 6-7 fps: noticeable.
Well, still to fine tune, my last command/settings:
Code:
Command-line:
=============
set menc=D:\KVCD\Mencoder
set source=D:\Temp\1
set output=D:\Temp\encoded

%menc%\mencoder -include %menc%\mplayer\setDVDHQ.ini -vf yuvcsp -lavcopts vbitrate=1500:vb_qfactor=1.25:vb_qoffset=1.25:lmin=2.5:vqmin=3:mbqmin=3:lmax=11:
vqmax=10:mbqmax=10 %source%.avi -o %output%.m2v

setDVDHQ.ini:
============
of=rawvideo=1 
ovc=lavc=1 
noskip=1 
nosound=1 
lavcopts=vcodec=mpeg2video:intra_matrix=8,9,12,22,26,27,29,34,9,10,14,26,
27,29,34,37,12,14,18,27,29,34,37,38,22,26,27,31,36,37,38,40,26,27,29,36,39,38,
40,48,27,29,34,37,38,40,48,58,29,34,37,38,40,48,58,69,34,37,38,40,48,58,69,79:
inter_matrix=16,18,20,22,24,26,28,30,18,20,22,24,26,28,30,32,20,22,24,26,28,30,
32,34,22,24,26,30,32,32,34,36,24,26,28,32,34,34,36,38,26,28,30,32,34,36,38,40,
28,30,32,34,36,38,42,42,30,32,34,36,38,40,42,44:mbd=2:vrc_minrate=300:
vrc_maxrate=5000:vrc_buf_size=1835:vmax_b_frames=2:preme=2:precmp=2:
cmp=2:subcmp=2:predia=-2:dia=-2:trell=1:cbp=1:mv0=1:naq=1:scplx_mask=0.5:
vqsquish=1:vqblur=0:vrc_eq=tex:keyint=15:aspect=16/9
I keep trellis since I removed it once and didn't like the output at all. Don't mind to wait an hour else to get better output.
BTW: I don't really know how lmin and lmax work, but this command without them renders a blocky file, and with this settings I didn't get them.
BTW2: some settings in command line will be changed to setDVDHQ.ini when I 'm whole sattisfied with results. I keep them in command since I make there the changes and is easier to having to change also the settings.
Hope you like it, and get a way to improve. I tried to take advantage of the improvements in your command (like yuvcsp: very good) but I said in my last post, I think we have completely different approaches...
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