Quantcast FFmpeg vs FFvfw vs Mencoder ? - Page 9 - digitalFAQ.com Forums [Archives]
  #161  
02-29-2004, 07:22 PM
vhelp vhelp is offline
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hi rds,

Quote:
Hi vhelp,
Imagine you have a DVD 720x576.
Also imagine that the black bands on that DVD are 12 on top and 12 on bottom.
Open up FitCD or MStacker and get the resizing figures.
It would give you for a non-anamorphic 704x576 XVCD:
Crop 712x552
Resize 688x400
Note: values taken from FitCD 1.1.3pre1!
As far as I know from "shh" the developer of FitCD on which MSatcker is based, MStaker needs
to be updated on some of the calculations.
Now put these arguments in mencoder:
:crop=720,552:size=688,400:expand=704,576:
These would go on the -lavcopts arguments.
Worked for me.
Anyway bilu may give you better advise.
Cheers
thats what I wanted. Ta do them manually. Thanks.

But, what I really want to do is crop the traditional way. You know..

I want to do this all in MEn, not in any .AVS scrips or vdub either. I'm trying
to stear towards doing things under MEn instead

Now, given all that, lets try a given scenario, shall we

Say my source is 720 x 480. It's a 2:35.1 AR. I wanna:

* add 8 pixels to my left and 8 pixels to my right.


Then, I also want to crop (not in auto mode) my OWN assumed crop, of:

* 59 pixels off top, and
* 62 pixels off the bottom

This will give me a final resoltuion of 720 x 359.

When I encode this, I'd like to encode w/ new black PURE bars. To do this,
(assuming I'm not making Anamorphic encodes) inside vdub, I set my
resolution to T: 720, and my B: 359 and THEN, I tab down and set the remaining
res to a final 720 x 480. This may be clumsy, but has worked for me in many
of my projects.

However, if I was doing an Anamorphic encode, than I would not need to
black bar this, but, I WOULD need to resize this 720 x 359, into 720 x 480
I think I have to use the Scale param, but I'm not sure on how to use that
just yet

My next question, given the above cropping method, I"d like to have PURE
black, boarders, just like TMPG does. When you encode this, TMPG does
a perfect PURE black bars at top and bottom. So far, when I encode black
bars (top and bottom) under MEn, they are gray or washed out black. Very
awlful looking. I'm wondering if MEn is lacking this feature, or am I missing
a step in order for MEn to ducpilicate this perfect PURE black bars like TMPG

Thanks for any assistance,
-vhelp
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  #162  
02-29-2004, 08:13 PM
bilu bilu is offline
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@vmesquita

Nice work on the compiling

But the man page needs to be converted in some other way.

Probably I tried the same program as you before because I got the same result: all parameters converted to s

Quote:
vqmin=<1-31>
minimum quantizer (pass 1/:2)

s Not recommended (much larger file, little quality difference and weird side effects: msmpeg4, h263 will be very low quality, ratecontrol will be confused resulting in lower quality and some decoders will not be able to decode it).

s Recommended for normal mpeg4/mpeg1video encoding (default).

s Recommended for h263(p)/msmpeg4. The reason for preferring 3 over 2 is that 2 could lead to overflows (this will be fixed for h263(p) by changing the quantizer per MB in the future, msmpeg4 cannot be fixed as it does not support that).
About everything else, I'll give feedback as time permits

Bilu
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  #163  
03-01-2004, 05:39 AM
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I just burned my first DVD-R incl. 2 mencoder encoded m2v streams.
The Streams where encoded during last week.

All m2v's I did (just in case) refixed using Restream and reseted the timestamps. Cause of some PTS... Errors during encoding.

Everything plays very fine! It looks awesome (all where TV captures at 704x576!). The second track got for 3 seconds a Bitrate blast up to 14000!! told by Bitrateviewer but it played fine So maybe that Bitrateviewer really gots a bug.

Well Im happy with mencoder and for shure its speed! And better Quantization/Bitrate behaviour compared to CCE and TmpgEnc.
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  #164  
03-01-2004, 05:56 AM
rds_correia rds_correia is offline
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Hi Inc.,
That's what worries me most: bitrate peaks.
I haven't seen them much, but I tried LOTR II right in the begining there is a scene with lot's of fire during more than 30s and I do have bitrate peaks above my vrc_maxrate of 6000 and some PTS SCR messages.
Though it didn't go above 9800...
Most my movies are medium action movies so I really cant test this.
I notice some blocks with still or very dark scenes.
Let's keep testing it.
Can you post your setting/arguments?
Thanks.
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  #165  
03-01-2004, 06:06 AM
bilu bilu is offline
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@vmesquita

On this version fractional fps like 29.97 or 23.976 don't work
Even when not specifying any -fps or -ofps parameter

Maybe something to do with this?
http://www.mplayerhq.hu/MPlayer/rele...-beta/contrib/

Or is it a bug from the current CVS build?

Anyway, tried the interlaced parameters to be able to compile an unchanged telecined NTSC stream and it didn't work - accepted the parameters, didn't provide the results

Also filmdint doesn't work as good as I expected - it's very, very bad on low-motion scenes. Looks like encoding with swapped field order.

Haven't tried any of the quality parameters, maybe they're the ones that will make this compile worth the trouble you had

At least we already know we can do direct CVS compiles whenever we want


Cheers,
Bilu
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  #166  
03-01-2004, 09:46 AM
digitall.doc digitall.doc is offline
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Hi all,
any comments to my tests with vmesquita's mencoder compilation? (previous page, in this thread). I'm worried about errors I'm getting... already burned a test to see in my standalone. I'll post how it looks.

@rds & inc,
I still didn't get any overbitrated (according to bitrate viewer) sample. The truth is I just tested with one film, choosing several slices. But I think I chose more bitrate demanding, and max bitrate I got was 7780, below my vrc_maxrate value of 8000. And in a particular scene the encoder raised Q to 5.47 in order to keep this maxrate (average Q of 2.17).
You could post your command-lines, and films and scenes/frames this happens (Rui, it happened to you in LOTR II at the begining, isn't it?).
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  #167  
03-01-2004, 10:46 AM
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hey guys..a visual problem with ffvfw (also MEmcoder, too I think)...

I like ffvfw, its motion estimation is wonderful!!!, however the blocks that it creates at low bitrate scenes is really a major drawback for me...(so far, no VBV issues, no bitrate peak issues)

Here is a first pass (MPEG KVCD notch matrix)...all the rest defualt settings...




These horrible block are diven me crazy...I have tried many different settings, but they will not go away...I tried min and max q at both 2, marcoblocks at both min and max of 2...Are you guys getting these blocks with Memcoder as well???
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  #168  
03-01-2004, 10:51 AM
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oh, I wish that we could create a post just for testing results...Everyone could post screenshots of recent tests...
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  #169  
03-01-2004, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poerschr
hey guys..a visual problem with ffvfw (also MEmcoder, too I think)...

I like ffvfw, its motion estimation is wonderful!!!, however the blocks that it creates at low bitrate scenes is really a major drawback for me...(so far, no VBV issues, no bitrate peak issues)

Here is a first pass (MPEG KVCD notch matrix)...all the rest defualt settings...

These horrible block are diven me crazy...I have tried many different settings, but they will not go away...I tried min and max q at both 2, marcoblocks at both min and max of 2...Are you guys getting these blocks with Memcoder as well???
That's strange since both qmin and qmax are set to 2

Have you tried any of this?

- Macroblock decision mode: rate distortion
- Allways try no motion
- Trellis quantization
- RD optimization for CBP
- Darkness masking

Give us your feedback.

Bilu
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  #170  
03-01-2004, 11:28 AM
bilu bilu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digitall.doc
Related to error messages: I was already getting this message, always at the begining of the encoding, with previous compilation:
Quote:
Unknown block type, possibly non-MPEG stream!
But doesn't stop encoding and later I don't see errors in stream. I thought it might be due to makeAVIS, but I fed mencoder directly with a vob file, and got the same message. I get it also with new compilation. Any idea about how to sole this?.
Still don't know what is it related to. I was thinking about the RFF fields of a telecined stream but it also happens with progressive I think

With telecine it goes like this:

1 duplicate frame(s)!
Unknown block type, possibly non-MPEG stream!

Quote:
And I get two new erros. The first one appears before starting encoding:
Quote:
[mpeg2video @ 0xa04bf50]Warning min_rate > 0 but min_rate != max_rate isnt recommanded!
Doesn't seem dangerous, just a warning, since I used minrate=300 and maxrate=8000.
Just stupidity, they recommend doing 1-pass CBR only

Quote:
The second error worries me more:
Quote:
[mpeg2video @ 0xa04bf50]rc buffer underflowin
Also appears at the begining of the encoding (after Unknown block type error), doesn't stop encoding, and I don't see any errors later in the stream. But I'n afraid it will give me later errors when muxing. What do you think?.
Probably means that the VBV buffer specified in vrc_buf_size=1835 isn't full yet, which is pretty normal at the beginning.

Bilu
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  #171  
03-01-2004, 11:38 AM
Jellygoose Jellygoose is offline
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That pic indeed looks horrible. I'd just use a strong blockbuster line. However filesize will be higher, but I'm sure you'll like the quality.

Code:
Blockbuster(method="noise",detail_min=1,detail_max=15,variance=1.5,seed=4326)
play with this...
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  #172  
03-01-2004, 12:01 PM
bilu bilu is offline
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AARGH!!!

http://www1.mplayerhq.hu/pipermail/m...er/040240.html

Quote:
On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 20:55:29 +0100
Peter Sobisch <petersob at gmx.net> wrote:

> Because I will have mpeg2 I took the newest version 1.0pre2 and tried
> following things:
>
> mencoder -ofps 25 -of mpeg -ovc lavc -lavcopts vcodec=mpeg2video -oac
> copy clip.mpg -o clip2.mpg
>
> and I'll get during encoding:
>
> ...
> Unknown blPos: 3,2s 81f ( 0%) 25fps Trem: 0min 0mb
> A-V:-0,006 [432:1411] 1 duplicate frame(s)!
> Unknown block type, possibly non-MPEG stream!<-- what
> does it mean ? Pos: 4,2s 104f ( 0%) 22fps Trem: 60min 904mb

> ...and so on...

'-of mpeg' isn't very...good... What you should do is just use a normal
AVI container, then dump the raw audio and video (withou
-dumpaudio/-dumpvideo) from the avi, and use tcmplex(or mplex) to mux
the two together into an MPEG file. I use the process to create SVCDs,
so I know it works (with MPlayer1.0pre2).
So maybe like everything else (Avisynth ? ) the output should be done to AVI and then remuxed.

Bilu

Bilu
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  #173  
03-01-2004, 12:32 PM
digitall.doc digitall.doc is offline
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poerschr, you said you used ffvfw... are you doing any preprocessing (at the begining of tests it was advised to add noise with internal filters, through ffdshow)?
But I guess is the same as Jellygoose is advising you, and maybe faster, and easier to tweak it making use of avisynth...
About mencoder, I'm now focused mainly in high action scenes: to see how mencoder manages high bitrates without going over maxrate, to see how mencoder adjusts Q level considering scene complexity and bitrate available,... But I'll also take a look at slow dark scenes to look for those blocks.
Anyway, I'm aiming KDVD, that means bitrates between 300 and 5000 and average around 2000-3000, and I don't think I'll have any problem in slow dark scenes. AFAIK tmpgenc is still better for low bitrates... if your tests don't say the opposite, of course.
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  #174  
03-01-2004, 12:41 PM
digitall.doc digitall.doc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bilu
So maybe like everything else (Avisynth ? ) the output should be done to AVI and then remuxed.

Bilu

Bilu
I don't know if I understood. Do you think that those "unknown block type" errors are related to the use of -of mpeg?.
Does it mean that -of mpeg is buggy, or that we're not using it in the proper way?.
What should we use then, -of avi (don't know it this exists, just an example), then demux (with VirtualDub for instance), take the stream (will it be an elementary mpeg2 stream?) and remux with our audio?.
And with avisynth, what do you refer to?, to the fact we have to use makeAVIS to feed mencoder, instead of avs script?.
We could also get in contact with mencoder developers...
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  #175  
03-01-2004, 12:48 PM
rds_correia rds_correia is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vhelp
thats what I wanted. Ta do them manually. Thanks.

But, what I really want to do is crop the traditional way. You know..

I want to do this all in MEn, not in any .AVS scrips or vdub either. I'm trying
to stear towards doing things under MEn instead
That's exctaly what I tried to explain.
You just open FitCD and Moviestacker to get the proper figures from the resizing panel.
But you never use the avisynth script provided by those tools
Use the arguments that I placed on my post and make sure you select the VOBfile for input
instead of a fake avi or avisynth script.
The problem is I don't know how to tell mencoder to encode several VOBfiles for input...

Quote:
Originally Posted by vhelp
Now, given all that, lets try a given scenario, shall we

Say my source is 720 x 480. It's a 2:35.1 AR. I wanna:

* add 8 pixels to my left and 8 pixels to my right.


Then, I also want to crop (not in auto mode) my OWN assumed crop, of:

* 59 pixels off top, and
* 62 pixels off the bottom

This will give me a final resoltuion of 720 x 359.

When I encode this, I'd like to encode w/ new black PURE bars. To do this,
(assuming I'm not making Anamorphic encodes) inside vdub, I set my
resolution to T: 720, and my B: 359 and THEN, I tab down and set the remaining
res to a final 720 x 480. This may be clumsy, but has worked for me in many
of my projects.

However, if I was doing an Anamorphic encode, than I would not need to
black bar this, but, I WOULD need to resize this 720 x 359, into 720 x 480
I think I have to use the Scale param, but I'm not sure on how to use that
just yet
So I took your figures into FitCD and got the following:
Crop=664x352
Resize=688x272
Now, I don't even care about saving any script with FitCD or MStacker.
Use the following arguments in mencoder in the -lavcopts argument:
:crop=664,352:size=688,272:expand=704,480:
Don't forget to change your input file to a VOBfile instead of the fake avi or the avisynth script.
Hope it helps.
Cheers
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  #176  
03-01-2004, 01:14 PM
bilu bilu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digitall.doc
I don't know if I understood. Do you think that those "unknown block type" errors are related to the use of -of mpeg?.
Does it mean that -of mpeg is buggy, or that we're not using it in the proper way?.
What should we use then, -of avi (don't know it this exists, just an example), then demux (with VirtualDub for instance), take the stream (will it be an elementary mpeg2 stream?) and remux with our audio?.
And with avisynth, what do you refer to?, to the fact we have to use makeAVIS to feed mencoder, instead of avs script?.
We could also get in contact with mencoder developers...
-of mpeg IS buggy. I mentioned Avisynth because once again (as we did with Avisynth) we're muxing from AVI (VFW) instead of MPEG sources.

Stay tuned for the next post

Bilu
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  #177  
03-01-2004, 01:22 PM
bilu bilu is offline
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GREAT NEWS: Interlaced / Telecined sources now work, both PAL and NTSC

Simple script for NTSC, not optimized for quality, 11 fps on a PIII-500.
Replace directories with your own.

No need for Avisynth deinterlace or IVTC to encode.
Progressive streams also work with these settings.
Most error messages disappeared

For PAL just replace 29.97 and 30 with 25.
30 was a workaround for NTSC to the vmesquita CVS build.
Needs both vmesquita CVS build and last Mplayer build.

Quote:
set menc=D:\kvcd\progs\mplayer
set movdir=D:\kvcd\samples\ntsc
set outdir=D:\kvcd\result
set movie=%1

cls

del /q /f %outdir%\%movie%.mpg
del /q /f %outdir%\%movie%.avi
del /q /f %outdir%\%movie%.m2v
del /q /f %movdir%\*.log
%menc%\mencoder -ovc lavc -noskip -nosound -lavcopts vcodec=mpeg2video:ildct:ilme:vrc_eq=tex:vqblur=0:v rc_minrate=300:vrc_maxrate=9800:vbitrate=9800:vrc_ buf_size=1835:keyint=18:autoaspect "%movdir%\%movie%" -o %outdir%\%movie%.avi -fps 30 -ofps 30
cd /d %outdir%
%menc%\mplayer -dumpvideo %outdir%\%movie%.avi -fps 29.97
ren %outdir%\stream.dump %movie%.m2v
pause
Hope you get as happy with this as I did

Bilu
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  #178  
03-01-2004, 02:43 PM
digitall.doc digitall.doc is offline
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You see, bilu, I was waiting your post like a nice boy...
I don't know how you manage to get 11 fps (well, yes, maybe due to not using mbd, trell, cbp, vqsquish, and so)
Quote:
For PAL just replace 29.97 and 30 with 25.
Quote:
"%movdir%\%movie%" -o %outdir%\%movie%.avi -fps 30 -ofps 30
Quote:
%menc%\mplayer -dumpvideo %outdir%\%movie%.avi -fps 29.97
Do we really need all these -fps and -ofps for PAL?. I encode without them and didn't get any problem...
Quote:
%menc%\mencoder -ovc lavc -noskip -nosound -lavcopts
I see you aren't already using -of mpeg, is it faster?. And I also see that default is output in .avi
Quote:
%menc%\mplayer -dumpvideo %outdir%\%movie%.avi -fps 29.97
...and this is the way to make use of mplayer to extract the video stream, isn't it?. I'm at work now, I can't test: is it fast as bbdemux?. And what about the stream, is it compatible (I guess yes since you used mpeg2video vcodec)
Quote:
ren %outdir%\stream.dump %movie%.m2v
... I forgot MSDOS a little, is this just to rename the dump file to .m2v?.

willing to get home and test it, while... some feedback please.
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  #179  
03-01-2004, 02:57 PM
bilu bilu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digitall.doc
Do we really need all these -fps and -ofps for PAL?. I encode without them and didn't get any problem...
Sorry, not needed for PAL, just for NTSC since the current CVS build doesn't support fractional (29.97) framerates. And with -noskip the duplicate frame messages are gone
Quote:
I see you aren't already using -of mpeg, is it faster?. And I also see that default is output in .avi
Much more compatible with Mencoder developments. Interlaced encoding does work here. -of avi is default.
Quote:
...and this is the way to make use of mplayer to extract the video stream, isn't it?. I'm at work now, I can't test: is it fast as bbdemux?. And what about the stream, is it compatible (I guess yes since you used mpeg2video vcodec)
About the same speed IMHO.
Quote:
... I forgot MSDOS a little, is this just to rename the dump file to .m2v?.
Yep.


Bilu
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  #180  
03-01-2004, 03:08 PM
bilu bilu is offline
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Just tested with the "official" Mencoder port by removing the ilme parameter from the command line.

Doesn't work. It's really needed for interlaced and telecined encodes.

Bilu
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