New VCR TV combo being developed in 2026? (Fake!)

[BarryTheCrab]

Interesting project that aims to reinvent restart VHS mechanics.
https://apple.news/A3kWv5-ezQaaM5l9Dq3U8fQ
https://retrobox.us/pages/about

[lordsmurf]

Yeah, okay. I hate always being a skeptic, but I seem to always be proven correct in the end.

This totally reminds me of CherryOS, for those that remember it.

We didn't see the VCR. It didn't seem large enough to M-load a tape, and helical scan it. Even if we assume the VCR uses the terrible compact design of an "infamous for breaking" tiny combo unit, the claim was made that the VCR was "from scratch". But creating a VCR head is almost impossible, requiring microscopic precision, tooling, and materials. So from that fact alone, I must call BS.

The entire "internally digitizes" (with stable output!) is also not believable when the final price is only $399.

So many red flags here.

Most people are not aware, but I've been a paid consultant, more than once, for startups looking to do "retro VCRs". But the headwinds to create such a piece of hardware never let it happen. It's just too much, at any price.

I'd more readily believe this was a prank, and the internal "VCR" was just outputting a pre-digitized video of the tape that was inserted. It's much easier to sync that process, as opposed to crafting new VCR heads (and head cylinder) from scratch. That could be accomplished with a few Arduinos, some random crap boards, and a stripped VCR transport, to give the right appearances. Then add $10 for the new domain, with $5 Shopify plan, to give further appearance of legitimacy. April 1 is 3 weeks away. Wait for it.

See attached images. Notice how his LinkedIn profile was proud of "20,000 followers in 30 days", and not anything to do with the supposed VCR. That reeks of social media data mining, or "account/channel flipping". That's where you get followers for one reason, then shift the account to actually be something else. It's just follower farming, and the account can sell for good $$$$ underground, if not used for himself. This is a college kid, that specializes in social media, currently earning his BA in marketing.

For such a feat, you need somebody with deep engineering skills. Not a student podcaster that lives on social media.

Fake.

I would not at all be surprised if this was some stunt/nonsense for a marketing class.

[Haunted_TBC]

Agreed, there is no way we will see Videocassette recorder production restart, because the entire ecosystem for manufacturing them has been dead for a decade or two. It’s not like quality phonographs where they always managed to stay in production (albeit in an underground/niche way and with high prices/low production numbers). Thus, they were able to be resurrected when demand returned.
Look at how Compact Cassette tech is doing… that whole ecosystem died, with the exception of a cheap and simple Chinese mechanism that forms the backbone at any attempt to make a new player, portable or not. This is not even getting into the fact that analog audio parts manufacturing is much simpler conceptually than analog video parts manufacturing.

[BarryTheCrab]

The video heads and how complex they are to actually manufacture was the first thing that came to mind, followed by RadVCR, the scammer.

[Aya_Rei]

This has been talked about on reddit, everybody basically agrees that this is most likely a scam using rebranded old stock.

They've all basically said something along the lines of "this is too good to be true as making a new VCR from the ground up would be too costly and challenging"

And yeah, other people have said that if new VCRs were being made, it'd most likely be the same results as new audio cassette devices, cheap low quality trash.

[radiokom]

The same story with any "new" device for old formats. For example, you can get perfect restored Nakamichi CR7 cassette deck for about $4-5K. Or if you are familiar with that you can find one in mint cosmetic condition for about $2500 and restore by yourself.
How much it would cost if you want to manufacture it today in small series? 100K? Or 200K? I believe not less than 200K.
I have Nakamichi TX-1000 and Dragon-CT turntables with Eminent Technology tonearms. The first today cost about 25-30K (if you can find it for sale) and second about 8K (with ET arm, however I doubt there are 2 CT with ET arm because it is my project). How much they would cost to manufacture today?
It is simply impossible to manufacture something like good VCR, tape recorder etc. today. Only possibility is to restore old TOTL devices. And we need perfect VCR only for digitizing purposes as playback device, not recording. I will not comment "analog audio lovers", it is different topic.
P.S. I need those turntables along with ELP laser turntable only for perfect digitization. I am not "analog lover". Broadcast standard 48khz 24bit PCM wave is all what I need.

You can get something like that for about 8K (without cartridge and if you can find CT, high pressure ET arm and modify table by yourself). How much it would cost to manufacture it today?

Dragon_CT_Eminent_VDH-2.jpg

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by radiokom

Nakamichi

I was never into high-end audio gear, but even I'm well aware of Nakamichi. Whenever I see your gear, I get that "wow, toys, yay!!!" feeling that I get with cameras/lenses. I'm more impressed by the item itself than I am in using it. True marvels in AV engineering.

Yet costly and underappreciated.

Some kid in a dorm room won't be "vibe coding" gear like this (or a VCR) anytime soon. Or ever. I rarely say "never", but it's probably a safe time to use it. Never, never, never.

Same goes for some random Chinese dude in an overseas slave-wage sweat shop, selling on Temu/Aliexpress. Nope.

[radiokom]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

Same goes for some random Chinese dude in an overseas slave-wage sweat shop, selling on Temu/Aliexpress. Nope.

Because the problem is not electronic components (semiconductors, chipsets, etc.). We can get them and adapt them to all needs. But we can't make a transport, we can't make new video and audio heads (audio is possible in Holland or Flux Magnetics in US, expensive but it is another story and not for VCR). And to manufacture exact G or K mechanism. Of course we can! $200,000 on the table, and we'll file out every detail. What will come of it - something like son of Frankenstein. Example - when they (in Europe) tried to restore Parabellum production, Luger's original workbenches and specifications had already been trashed. As if it were nothing complicated - take Luger and copy it! It didn't work, it turned out a parody of Parabellum. And how many parts are in Parabellum and how many in any VCR transport!

P.S. However - as we know no one is able to manufacture even working TBC now. So electronics is the same problem.

P.P.S. One example with happy end. I had 2 Nakamichi Dragon-CT and one with damaged EPROM so center search does not work. It was factory programmed and no way to do something. BUT! Another one was from first series with programmable EPROM chip in socket, so we was able to copy it and replace that non working with new in socket.

P.P.P.S. The moral of the story is that all the technical capabilities (electronic components) are available, but there is no one left to program them properly. The new generation doesn't understand what the story is about at all, and in order to program something, you have to understand the principles of operation. And here we are.

[Feedbucket]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

This is a college kid, that specializes in social media, currently earning his BA in marketing.

The way they word things in both their writing and IG videos is very social media content coded ("... in 2026").

I'd been following this for a bit now. It's curious how most of the noise about this was over the faux CRT (from, of course, the "retro gamer" crowd - I assume the target audience) with pretty much everyone ignoring the actual red flag. There's probably a topic for study to be found there.

[vwestlife]

The press photo they're using is a late 2000s Magnavox CRT TV/VCR combo that was Photoshopped to add the RetroBox name and an HDMI port on it. If they deliver anything at all, maybe they found an unsold stock of these units and will be slapping cheap composite-to-HDMI converters in them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aya_Rei

And yeah, other people have said that if new VCRs were being made, it'd most likely be the same results as new audio cassette devices, cheap low quality trash.

That's not entirely fair. Yes, many new cassette players are cheap low-quality trash, but there are good-quality players and decks available, if you're willing to pay $500 - $600 for them, from TEAC and TASCAM.

But that's only possible because they're still using chassis and mechanism designs from the 1990s which never went out of production. It's not like VHS VCRs, which ended production in 2016 and presumably since then all of the production tooling to make them has been scrapped.

[radiokom]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vwestlife

That's not entirely fair. Yes, many new cassette players are cheap low-quality trash, but there are good-quality players and decks available, if you're willing to pay $500 - $600 for them, from TEAC and TASCAM.

But that's only possible because they're still using chassis and mechanism designs from the 1990s which never went out of production. It's not like VHS VCRs, which ended production in 2016 and presumably since then all of the production tooling to make them has been scrapped.

Not true. They are crap, not good quality. And they not use chassis and mechanisms from 1990s. It is cheap Chinese Tanashin mechanisms used in them, there are no other mechanisms. And there are no "new" 3 head closed loop decks at all. Last decent cassette decks are from early 90s.

[Haunted_TBC]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vwestlife

The press photo they're using is a late 2000s Magnavox CRT TV/VCR combo that was Photoshopped to add the RetroBox name and an HDMI port on it

It’s actually a 2001/2002 RCA T09085 (under Thomson) 9” Color Television TV/VCR Combo, and I found photos of it online.
The RetroBox people are apparently a couple, and they “answered” some questions on camera in a recent clip.
Question:
“Backwards engineering something that came out 30 years ago?” ��
Answer:
“Yes, we’re making the VCR in 2026 from scratch, we are not restoring or refurbishing old units”
Question:
Is the TV shown in your video the actual product?
Answer:
“No, it’s actually our MVP, our minimum viable product, or concept design. No one has actually seen our VCR yet.
Question:
“Just curious, why not a real CRT?”
Answer:
“Well, we’ve been trying to make a CRT, however, we’re focusing on the VCR first due to environmental limitations, manufacturing limitations, we’re not going to be going that route yet. We will also be making standalone VCRs so stay tuned for that.”

These are some super bold claims I’d love to see come true (they even mentioned including S-Video) but I wonder if there’s any truth to them.

[radiokom]

Here are few articles how decent cassette deck looks like.
It is impossible to manufacture something like this even if you have axe and crowbar from pure gold.
I do not talk about those "new reel to reel" doorstops like Ballfinger and Metaxa, that crap is another story.

[Aya_Rei]

Feels like this will turn out to be either a full on scam or overpriced cheap junk. You pay $400 or so bucks for an LCD screen with a CRT filter and a cheap VCR combined.

You'd better off be getting an old refurbished VCR that actually wasn't cheaply made to begin with.

Didn't consumer VCRs just get worse + cheaper overtime, weren't very late model units the cheapest crap, the most bare bones VCR?

If new audio cassette decks are cheap junk that no audiophile would want to use (they'd rather stick to their higher quality old decks) then VCRs would fall down that path if it even goes down a path to begin with.

Sadly the people who made these old machines are either retired or no longer with us, and we common folk can't just make them out of nothing.

If we could, we'd have the charge the end product accordingly anyway.

[vwestlife]

Quote:

Originally Posted by radiokom

Not true. They are crap, not good quality. And they not use chassis and mechanisms from 1990s. It is cheap Chinese Tanashin mechanisms used in them, there are no other mechanisms.

Why not leave that judgement to the people who actually own and use these modern cassette decks?

New TEAC W-1200 cassette deck - Detailed review

Tanashin stopped manufacturing cassette mechanisms in 2009. TEAC/TASCAM uses mechanisms made by CSG.

Quote:

And there are no "new" 3 head closed loop decks at all. Last decent cassette decks are from early 90s.

And the vast majority of people couldn't afford one even when they were still being made. That's like saying the last decent violin was a Stradivarius.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aya_Rei

Didn't consumer VCRs just get worse + cheaper overtime, weren't very late model units the cheapest crap, the most bare bones VCR?

I don't hate the "last gasp" Funai VCRs nearly as much as most people here probably do. They were meant to be good enough for the average consumer watching them on a 20" or less CRT via RF, not to please the discriminating videophile or professional archivist.

And they're actually surprisingly reliable once all the early failures were weeded out of the supply chain 20+ years ago. If one is still working today, it'll likely stay working for years to come with only basic maintenance, because the design is so utterly simple mechanically and electronically.

Last Gasp VHS: cheap 2000s Funai VCRs

[radiokom]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vwestlife

Why not leave that judgement to the people who actually own and use these modern cassette decks?

New TEAC W-1200 cassette deck - Detailed review

Tanashin stopped manufacturing cassette mechanisms in 2009. TEAC/TASCAM uses mechanisms made by CSG.

And the vast majority of people couldn't afford one even when they were still being made. That's like saying the last decent violin was a Stradivarius.

That's ridiculous. Leave judgement to the people who actually own and use these modern cassette decks?
They are idiots! No matter how those bumbox mechanics manufacturer called today - Tanashin, CSG or BS, they are crap! No transport, no heads, no even basic knowledge! Bullshit.

-- merged --

Just for curiosity I looked at that new Teac W-1200 (all other has the same) specifications:

Oho!:

Wow and flutter 0.25% (W.RMS). So it can be heard even on Disco!
It is horrible! 10x as Nakamichi CR7 (My is under 0,025 WRMS). With original belt to supply capstan (yes original belt was available from TEAC V-7000, it share Sankyo Direct drive transport (head block is unique) and original belts from Teac was available until at least 2022).

Frequency response:
High position tape (Type II) 30 to 15k Hz (+/-4dB)
Normal tape (Type I) 30 to 13k Hz (+/-4dB)

Blackout!

Any cheapest boombox from 1980 has better specs.

[vwestlife]

Go watch the review. The actual measured specifications are much better than the published ones.

Note that many brands used to have two sets of specs: the much better advertised ones, and the secret "guaranteed to meet this or else it's eligible for warranty service/replacement" specs printed in their internal service documentation, which were much worse.

Or they'd make up their own novel ways of measuring it to achieve a fantastically good result, such as Technics using the internal frequency readout of their direct-drive turntable motor as its wow & flutter spec, rather than actually playing a test record and measuring it on a meter. That's like back when they used to measure a car engine's horsepower with no accessories (alternator, water pump, cooling fan, etc.) or exhaust system attached (gross HP).

So, specs used to lie... a lot. So I think it's great that TEAC/TASCAM is delivering actual performance that is much better than their published specs.

[radiokom]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vwestlife

Go watch the review. The actual measured specifications are much better than the published ones.

Note that many brands used to have two sets of specs: the much better advertised ones, and the secret "guaranteed to meet this or else it's eligible for warranty service/replacement" specs printed in their internal service documentation, which were much worse.

Or they'd make up their own novel ways of measuring it to achieve a fantastically good result, such as Technics using the internal frequency readout of their direct-drive turntable motor as its wow & flutter spec, rather than actually playing a test record and measuring it on a meter. That's like back when they used to measure a car engine's horsepower with no accessories (alternator, water pump, cooling fan, etc.) or exhaust system attached (gross HP).

So, specs used to lie... a lot. So I think it's great that TEAC/TASCAM is delivering actual performance that is much better than their published specs.

Complete BS. Crap is crap even in Africa. And those new Teac are doorstops.
Here is what we can call "Cassette deck":

DSC00059.jpg

[lordsmurf]

@vwestlife, @radiokom, just as a reminder, this should all be friendly discussions.

I'm actually not sure about Teac/Tascam using 1990s designs.

I do know that my Crosley record/tape player sounds like crap next to the vintage 1970s "piece of furniture" stereo that we bought new in the 70s. Same for Crosley vs. the vintage 80s "short stack" stereo (and not even a high-end one!) that we got in the 80s. But then that same Crosley "sounds fine" in a vacuum, without anything to compare it to. Excluding the CD, the CD truly sucks in that thing.

@vwestlife, I forget if you like or hate Crosley, I just remember you had opinions on it. Any off-hand info on what that Crosley uses?

Funai VCRs really were quite bad. But in a vacuum, without having any S-VHS to compare it to, yes, there are worse decks.

Vacuums suck.

I have a semi-cheap ginormous RCA boombox from the late 80s. It's also better than modern cheap CD players and "Walkman" (not brand name) portable tape players. (Though it's more like to eat tapes than not, and it's a real PITA to open and remove the tape safely).

Yes, sometimes test specs are better than paper specs. That happens. (Why? Same reason as always: docs and manuals are NOT written by engineers, but lowly often-outsource often-Engrish copywriters, many of whom wouldn't know an audio cassette/tape from a tapeworm.)

Yes, invented specs are also a problem. Or fudged -- and yes, especially car HP measurements, even all the way back to the 70s! Maybe even before? Always?

I'd also add that continents/location may come into player here. Eastern Europe is, sadly, often a dumping ground for not-quite-good products, items that failed QC. This was a huge problem with blank CD/DVD about 20 years ago.Once upon a time, Chinese markets kept their junk at home. Now they want "the good stuff", send a mix of good and junk to North America, and the horrid products get dumped onto other countries in Asia, Europe, South America, and Africa.

So there's some nuance of agreement, even in our disagreements.

This topic has really veered away from the VCR scam. I may need to split the audio conversation to a new thread...