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  #1  
02-18-2023, 03:04 PM
Jayce72 Jayce72 is offline
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So I started trying to digitise my home video from the 90s and 00s back in 2018 and got overwhelmed by so may conflicting opinions.

Time has now passed so I thought I would have another go. I have read so so many forum guides and versions to do this and it's amazing how views change over the years and how many opinions there are. So I have pulled at the best ideas (I recon) and going to follow this process

So here goes and I'm putting this up as a guide to what and how Im doing it. So if Im making a real error here someone may have an opinion. I am not an expert or even a novice. Just a guy trying to capture his old films

I dont expect to get this done at the best 100% quality, just enough that we (i.e: family) can watch them again as and when we like

I'll be capturing VHS tape and also old camcorder tapes - being played on a VHS player (not the camcorder - it's dead) (UK - PAL) and I have an Adapter to put the camcorder tapes into as well as standard VHS tapes

I am using:
- WIN 10 64 bit
- Panasonic video player
- Dazzle DVC100 capture device
- VirtualDub (Capture)
- VirtualDub2 (Edit and Export)

- Using Lagarith (version 1.3.27) to capture, I am not using HuffYUY as I have read on this forum it has issues on Windows 10, which was proven right when I did a capture and the audio was out of sync with the video. I swapped to Lagarith and it was fine
- not using VirtualDub2 to capture - Lord Smurf said in a post to capture on standard VirtualDub not VirtualDub2. Therefore, I will be using VirtualDub2 to edit and compress

There will be 3 parts to my capture process:
1. The original capture that will be archived as a master
2. A version from the master - tidied up and compressed to watch whenever
3. A version from the master - tidied up, deinterlaced and compressed and uploaded to YouTube


Step 1 Capturing

1. Open VirtualDub and enter capture mode

2. I'll be using all the settings in this guide (previously recommended) unless otherwise changed below -
https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vid...-settings.html

From the Virtualdub windows menu across the top.......
3. Device / Dazzle DVC100

4. Video / Preview

5. Video / Capture Pin:
Capture Pin.jpg

6. Video / Capture Filter:
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7. Video / Compression
Capture filter.jpg
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8. Capture / Timing
Video Compression.jpg

9. Then start capturing



Step 2 Tidying and archiving to watch (keeping it as unmolested as possible)

1. In virtualDub2 open the master capture file

2. Video / Filters - Masking the noise from the edges - using the guide as suggested by Lord Smurf https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vid...erly-crop.html

3. and selecting resize Setting
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4. Then Cropping the noise from the edges
Video Compression1.jpg

5. Video/Compression
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6. Configure
Timing.jpg

7. Audio/Compression
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8. File/Save Video (MP4)
resize.jpg



Step 3 - These additional steps are for the Tube version - steps 1 to 4 as above - plus:
1. Add DeInterlace
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2. Resize to 1440 x 1080
crop.jpg

3.Then steps 5 to 7 as above

4. File/Save Video (MP4)


Personally on viewing them back I think the YouTube (1080) version may look better than the tidying (interlaced) version. Not sure why. So before I commit to recording and editing hours of footage I thought I would get some thoughts and views.

I tried to keep this guide as simple as poss and keep the whole process simple.

Raw capture https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nX7...usp=share_link
Tidied version https://drive.google.com/file/d/1YRK...usp=share_link
Tidied Youtube version https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPLU8JuojWA


Attached Images
File Type: jpg save2.jpg (37.4 KB, 15 downloads)

Last edited by Jayce72; 02-18-2023 at 03:29 PM. Reason: wrong image
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  #2  
02-19-2023, 10:41 AM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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Which Panasonic?
Some quality, like AG-1980?
Or a low-end PV model sold for watching rented tapes from Blockbuster?

Those timing settings can be fine. Or not. "Auto disable resync" is needed for cards. A tiny handful of cards need to disable preview timestamps. Some of that depends on the OS, and exact system, so it's not rigid rules. Just something to watch for, which is seen/heard with drops or audio attenuation (chipmunk, baritone).

Converting to Youtube with VirtualDub works, but nowhere as good as using Hybrid. For starters, Hybrid has QTGMC deinterlace, not ancient Yadif.

You must crop after deinterlace, not before!

That's not a good capture card, often very destructive. I have a DVC100 unit that I'd consider minimally passasble, but it seems that most are simply destructive. The values are all over the place, and it too often blows out the signal (hot, overexposed). The AGC inside is crap.

You lack any TBC, which is why the video is so degraded. Those wiggly train tracks should be straight, not a mushy artifact-filled scene. The rough Yadif makes it worse. At very least, add ES10/15. Right now, this video looks like it's being viewed with binoculars through a dirty window screen. With proper capture, it can look more like a retail DVD.

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  #3  
02-19-2023, 12:02 PM
Jayce72 Jayce72 is offline
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Thanks so much for the reply and help

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
Which Panasonic?
Some quality, like AG-1980?
Or a low-end PV model sold for watching rented tapes from Blockbuster?
Panasonic NV-VP31

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
Those timing settings can be fine. Or not. "Auto disable resync" is needed for cards. A tiny handful of cards need to disable preview timestamps. Some of that depends on the OS, and exact system, so it's not rigid rules. Just something to watch for, which is seen/heard with drops or audio attenuation (chipmunk, baritone).
Ok thanks will tick the box and try it out

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
Converting to Youtube with VirtualDub works, but nowhere as good as using Hybrid. For starters, Hybrid has QTGMC deinterlace, not ancient Yadif.
I read Hybrid was not for newbies so I never tried it. I'll look into it - unless you can point me to a post that has a guide

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
You must crop after deinterlace, not before!
Ok will do - but above you say deinterlace with Hybrid. So, do you also crop back in Virtualdub after deinterlacing in Hybrid.
P.S: in a previous post you said "never crop - always mask". Which is what Im doing in both outputs - is that still correct



Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
That's not a good capture card, often very destructive. I have a DVC100 unit that I'd consider minimally passasble, but it seems that most are simply destructive. The values are all over the place, and it too often blows out the signal (hot, overexposed). The AGC inside is crap.
Fair enough - but it's all I got

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
You lack any TBC, which is why the video is so degraded. Those wiggly train tracks should be straight, not a mushy artifact-filled scene. The rough Yadif makes it worse. At very least, add ES10/15. Right now, this video looks like it's being viewed with binoculars through a dirty window screen. With proper capture, it can look more like a retail DVD.
I dont have a TBC - trying to do this on a budget as I dont have that many tapes to do - just not cost affective.

Also - what is "add ES10/15"

And I connected up the video player to a TV and in all fairness the train tracks still look bad. This was my Father in Laws tape so I cant vouch for the camera he used to record it. I'll try a different recording and repost tomorrow
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  #4  
02-19-2023, 12:18 PM
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Hybrid isn't "not for newbies". Anybody can learn anything. But it requires some reading, often some hands-on testing. Not blind pressing buttons like an ape. Inversely, don't think you're an instant expert because you got a result that didn't suck. Use it, go slow, proceed with caution, learn. If you can find your way through the maze that is encoding x264/5 in VirtualDub2, then Hybrid isn't a huge leap. It has defaults, but the key to quality is learn what nuanced settings do, not really much different from VirtualDub2 use of x264vfw, though it didn't show all the settings like Hybrid does.

DMR-ES10, DRM15. Read the forum for info on ES10/15 units, as a very basic TBC(ish) for passthrough. It's not ideal, not a TBC replacement of any sort, but vastly better than nothing at all.

Being on a budget is fine. But realize there's a difference between intelligent budgeting, and being too cheap. Not buying something isn't budgeting, it's just being cheap. Some form of TBC is required, even the inexpensive ES10/15 as the TBC(ish). Dropped frames on your video is obvious, and quality stinks. Again, ES10/15 is a bare minimum, not flawless. You'll see an obvious boost by using it, just realize it gets better or more stable. Buy the ES10/15.

You can get other cards, for not much cost. Certain PAL users here like the Hauppauge Live2. I don't like this model, but it would be a big improvement here, paired with ES10/15. Right now, you're making mushy crummy videos, but this small change will vastly improve it.

The VCR, and lack of TBC, is why the tape is bad. It likely has nothing to do with the signal on the original tape, unless it's nth gen (and if that's the tape he shot, it's not nth gen, aka a copy of a copy of a copy etc).

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  #5  
02-27-2023, 11:55 AM
Jayce72 Jayce72 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
Hybrid isn't "not for newbies". Anybody can learn anything. But it requires some reading, often some hands-on testing. Not blind pressing buttons like an ape. Inversely, don't think you're an instant expert because you got a result that didn't suck. Use it, go slow, proceed with caution, learn. If you can find your way through the maze that is encoding x264/5 in VirtualDub2, then Hybrid isn't a huge leap. It has defaults, but the key to quality is learn what nuanced settings do, not really much different from VirtualDub2 use of x264vfw, though it didn't show all the settings like Hybrid does.
Ok downloaded it and giving it a whirl - any good site for recommended guidance?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
DMR-ES10, DRM15. Read the forum for info on ES10/15 units, as a very basic TBC(ish) for passthrough. It's not ideal, not a TBC replacement of any sort, but vastly better than nothing at all.

Being on a budget is fine. But realize there's a difference between intelligent budgeting, and being too cheap. Not buying something isn't budgeting, it's just being cheap. Some form of TBC is required, even the inexpensive ES10/15 as the TBC(ish). Dropped frames on your video is obvious, and quality stinks. Again, ES10/15 is a bare minimum, not flawless. You'll see an obvious boost by using it, just realize it gets better or more stable. Buy the ES10/15.
Ok I've bought a DMR-ES10 - it's on the way - I have never used a TBC before - I presume you go VHS out to ES10 in then ES10 out to capture card to PC


Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
You can get other cards, for not much cost. Certain PAL users here like the Hauppauge Live2. I don't like this model, but it would be a big improvement here, paired with ES10/15. Right now, you're making mushy crummy videos, but this small change will vastly improve it.
If not a Hauppauge Live2, what would be better?
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  #6  
03-07-2023, 04:48 PM
Jayce72 Jayce72 is offline
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So I received my Panasonic DMR-ES10

I recorded the same footage as above, but this time I:
1. Recorded the RAW footage
2. Used Hybrid to De-interlace using Avisynth (QTGNMC) and bob and made it 50 FPS
3. Then used Virtualdub2 to crop and letterbox to remove noise and resize to 1440X1152
4. Then went back to Hybrid to recode back to x264
5. Uploaded to Youtube

This is the result

New TBC and Hybrid version https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtctNT_7qCo

compared to a non TBC (ish):

Tidied Youtube version https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPLU8JuojWA
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  #7  
03-08-2023, 12:06 AM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
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It should be 1440x1080 not 1440X1152, Since youtube takes only square pixel, it has probably already been squeezed back to 1080 which screws up the frame geometry, I don't have access to YT from here but I will check back later.
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  #8  
03-08-2023, 01:37 AM
Hushpower Hushpower is offline
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Quote:
Since youtube takes only square pixel, it has probably already been squeezed back to 1080
Youtube will display, whatever you give it if they are square pixels; it doesn't stick to "norms". In this case, YT is displaying 1440x1152 as 1.25, which it is.

Quote:
3. Then used Virtualdub2 to crop and letterbox to remove noise and resize to 1440X1152
4. Then went back to Hybrid to recode back to x264
Why not just use the x264 8 bit encoder in VDub2? More a question for the floor, I guess. One less encode (admittedly, lossless, I assume).
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  #9  
03-08-2023, 04:00 AM
Jayce72 Jayce72 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hushpower View Post
Youtube will display, whatever you give it if they are square pixels; it doesn't stick to "norms". In this case, YT is displaying 1440x1152 as 1.25, which it is.
I only did it as 1440x1152 because I captured in PAL 720x576. I did a lot of research yesterday and apart from the guide in my original post at the top for going 1080 for YT. I cant see a good option to resize to 1080 with chopping away pixels on the side. Unless anyone can suggest a post to go from 720x576 to 1440x1080

So using Hybrid I want to do all the following in Hybrid:
- Deinterlace
- crop the noise and add a frame around the edges to get back to 720x576
- then resize to 1440x1080
- then encode using x264

I could not find a way using Hybrid to add a frame like you can in Virtualdub2. Hence I then went between the Hybrid and VirtualDub2. Unless you can add a frame like VirtualDub2


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hushpower View Post
Why not just use the x264 8 bit encoder in VDub2? More a question for the floor, I guess. One less encode (admittedly, lossless, I assume).
I have found that encoding the attached video. In Hybrid the size was only 15MB, but in VurtualDub2 is was encoding at 38MB - is probably a settings thing - but I am not experienced and a newbie to this - so learning as I go

Last edited by Jayce72; 03-08-2023 at 04:03 AM. Reason: added text
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  #10  
03-08-2023, 04:29 AM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayce72 View Post
I only did it as 1440x1152 because I captured in PAL 720x576. I did a lot of research yesterday and apart from the guide in my original post at the top for going 1080 for YT. I cant see a good option to resize to 1080 with chopping away pixels on the side. Unless anyone can suggest a post to go from 720x576 to 1440x1080
720x576 -> 704x576 -> 1440x1080 This is the correct aspect ratio,
Or 720x576 -> Crop to the active video area with clean edges but try to stay within 704:576 ratio, for example 698x572 then resize to 1440x1080, 6 pixels off give or take is not going to be noticeable.
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  #11  
03-08-2023, 04:35 AM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hushpower View Post
Youtube will display, whatever you give it if they are square pixels; it doesn't stick to "norms". In this case, YT is displaying 1440x1152 as 1.25, which it is.
No, Youtube always defaults to 1080, I just downloaded the video and it is 1080.
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03-08-2023, 06:00 AM
Jayce72 Jayce72 is offline
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I have now done the following:

Deinterlaced in Hybrid using Avisynth and bob to 50 fps and 8000Kbits per second - encoded using X264 - saved as MP4 - size was 71.5MB

Removed Noise on the sides of the video in Virtualdub2 and framed then upscaled to 1440x1080 - saved as MP4 - size was 16.1GB

Back in Hybrid and encoded again using X264 - size went down to 73MB

result was.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPYs2GAYuck

I will record a different video and follow this same process and upload here, as I dont like the existing clip as I think the original quality is poor
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03-08-2023, 06:16 AM
Hushpower Hushpower is offline
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Quote:
I only did it as 1440x1152 because I captured in PAL 720x576. I did a lot of research yesterday and apart from the guide in my original post at the top for going 1080 for YT. I cant see a good option to resize to 1080 with chopping away pixels on the side. Unless anyone can suggest a post to go from 720x576 to 1440x1080
Yes, it is confusing. The issue is that although a capture is only 720x576 (5:4, or 1.25 to 1) it is designed to be displayed at 4:3, or 1.3333. to 1. While it seems all SD is 720x576, it only looks correct because the pixels are stretched a bit. The effective ratio is 768x576, which is also 4:3, or 1.333:1.

Thankfully, the world came to it's senses and virtually every other image size above SD is worked out using square pixels, so a 4:3 video (which is what the effective/apparent size of SD is) equates to 1440x1080. What I think you did was, completely understandably, apply the 720x576 ratio to the 1440 frame size to arrive at 1152.

Now, how to.

First, if you are going to resize to 1440x1080, you must de-interlace first. VDub has a deinterlace filter which works pretty well. You can (just) tell the difference between it and QTGMC but is it worth the hassle going to Hybrid for your deinterlacing then back to VDub for cropping and resizing? If it's a super-important video for wide distribution then maybe yes, but for my family stuff, nope.

In VDub2 (I use 2 because it has a proper cropping filter as opposed to the "addon" that 1.9.11 has, as well as the native x264 export options), open up the crop filter.

Crop off the vertical edges as desired. However much you cropped off the top and bottom, multiply it by 1.333, then add 16, to give you the total to be cropped off the sides (the 16 chops off the "dead area" that is on the sides of the captured frame but which doesn't contain any video). If you need to take more off the sides, just adjust the vertical crop to match the 4:3 ratio.

Example: crop 15 pixels off the bottom to get rid of the VHS switching noise. Multiply that by 1.3333 (standard SD ratio) to give you 20. Add 16 to that to give you 36, and that's the total amount you have to crop off bottom and top.

Finally, set up the resize: go to the Resize filter; in the Aspect Ratio area, tick the "Disabled" radio button. In the New Size area, tick "Absolute" and enter 1440x1080 (or 768x576 if wanted). OK out.

On the audio menu, choose Full Processing.

For the "Save video...", in the x264 Configure, set the SAR to 1 and 1 and set the other parameters as you need. If not setting an average bitrate, set the CRF to something like 16 and play with it. Lower numbers give better quality but bigger file sizes.

Then back to the Save As screen, set the file extension to MP4 Fast Start and audio compression to FFMPEG AAC.

Done!
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  #14  
03-08-2023, 06:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Latreche
No, Youtube always defaults to 1080, I just downloaded the video and it is 1080.
You obviously didn't notice the Youtube horizontal size is 1350, which is 1.25:1, same as 1440x1152, and which is the ratio that YT displays the video at, as per the screen grab attached.


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03-08-2023, 06:24 AM
Hushpower Hushpower is offline
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@Jayce72, try using the deinterlace filter in VDub: choose Yadif and double frame rate TFF.
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03-08-2023, 07:05 AM
Jayce72 Jayce72 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hushpower View Post
For the "Save video...", in the x264 Configure, set the SAR to 1 and 1 and set the other parameters as you need. If not setting an average bitrate, set the CRF to something like 16 and play with it. Lower numbers give better quality but bigger file sizes.
Thanks and why does virtualdub2 encoding in x264 create a file size at 16GB compared to Hybrid at 78MB - thats a huge difference
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03-08-2023, 07:08 AM
Jayce72 Jayce72 is offline
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Originally Posted by Hushpower View Post
@Jayce72, try using the deinterlace filter in VDub: choose Yadif and double frame rate TFF.
I am deinterlacing in Hybrid off the advise from Lord Smurf that Yadid was now quite old and QTGMC was now far better and Hybrid was now better at encoding
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  #18  
03-08-2023, 07:35 AM
Xhumeka Xhumeka is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hushpower View Post
You obviously didn't notice the Youtube horizontal size is 1350, which is 1.25:1, same as 1440x1152, and which is the ratio that YT displays the video at, as per the screen grab attached.
I like the fact YouTube added a "stats for nerds" option (right-click on video). This also shows the video is 1440x1152:


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File Type: jpg eWWLvwZ.jpg (58.5 KB, 4 downloads)

Last edited by Xhumeka; 03-08-2023 at 08:15 AM. Reason: attached image
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03-08-2023, 07:54 AM
Hushpower Hushpower is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayce72 View Post
Thanks and why does virtualdub2 encoding in x264 create a file size at 16GB compared to Hybrid at 78MB - thats a huge difference
It is indeed a huge difference. It'll be the bitrates, unless you are mistakenly exporting uncompressed video in the second step out of VDub (as opposed to H264).

If you insist (at Lord's Smurf's insistence ) on going via Hybrid and back, you should try to not go via the two in a lossy codec. You're currently re-encoding MP4 twice that I can see. This is not good, especially for SD.

I suggest this workflow:

Open your file in Hybrid and deinterlace.

Export from Hybrid using a lossless codec such as HUFFYUV or FFV1 (unfortunately, Hybrid doesn't support LAGS in my version).

Open that in VDub, do your stuff, then re-export as another lossless (HUFFYUV, LAGS or FFV1).

Open in Hybrid and set up your final MP4 export.

That workflow will keep generation loss to a minimum because you are working with lossless files until the end.

I had a quick play around with Hybrid (I gave up on it previously, doing what you are doing, because of the slow encode speed for QTGMC. I confess that I now use QTGMC for my high-value files; although it did take 5 years off my life to get it working!).

Anyway, it looks to me like you can crop and resize in Hybrid: you can click on "crop view" at the bottom right of the Crop screen. I haven't fully worked it out but it seemed to be working; it pops up a preview.

You can also set up a resize there, using the same principle as I described above. For 1440x1080, the final SAR/DAR/PAR whatever it is is Custom 1:1 square.

You may be able to do the whole thing in Hybrid.

Neither are as clear or simple as in VDub but it will certainly save a re-encode or two. If you're doing a proper-sized video and not a couple of minute old TV ad, these re-encodes take time.
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03-08-2023, 07:57 AM
Hushpower Hushpower is offline
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Quote:
I like the fact YouTube added a "stats for nerds" option (right-click on video). This also shows the video is 1440x1152:
I forgot about that. Thanks for the reminder.
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