Snell and Wilcox CVR-600AD audio weird input?

[hajes29a]

According to the manual, there are some weird 4-pin audio inputs. Do I need to run audio in as well or can I bypass the video sync device, and connect audio directly to a capture card, please?

[gunzel]

Based on the block diagram posted in this other thread I would suggest the audio needs to go through it in order to stay in sync.

[latreche34]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hajes29a

According to the manual, there are some weird 4-pin audio inputs. Do I need to run audio in as well or can I bypass the video sync device, and connect audio directly to a capture card, please?

There are multiple types of audio connectors, you will have to post a picture to see what type you got, Though all of them are going to be balanced inputs which means the gain is going to be low. Consumer A/V gears use unbalanced RCA connectors for audio, Pro use numerous balanced sockets, XLR, 1/4" jacks, Phoenix, DUB25, Proprietary ... just to name few.

We don't know yet what SDI adapter you are going to use, but Black Magic SDI streamers use MediaExpress software and it allows you to raise the audio gain to make up for the difference. Some people use powered unbalanced to balanced devices to amplify the gain a notch to bring it up to balanced standard studio level.

Not sure what capture card you're referring to, Is it the SDI to USB adapter? If so then you can't, the audio has to be injected before the SDI output.

[hajes29a]

There are 3-pin terminals/screw-in connectors...small mistake

images.jpeg

I have found a cinch/screw-in terminal cable...perhaps one can DIY cable...there are just screws.

Based on diagram, it would be better to run it through for correct a/v sync.

Since I cant find any suggested TBC what Lordsmurf often talks about. Another suggestion is above by device.

1.test; s-vhs deck > s-video cable + cinch > cvr600 > s-video+audio > BMD Intensity Pro(Linux)

I do not know much yet about SDI, but it looks like keep it digital from CVR600 would be even better workflow. Which means buying SDI capture card...

If there will be no improvements/no better output than tourist VCRs (I have already one capture with chroma shifts)...I will smash everything, and commit Seppuku )

[gunzel]

Noticed in the similar threads section below it looks like there is a manual for these units posted on this forum. It has a section showing the connector and pin out.

[hajes29a]

Yes, another post of mine. There aree mixed feelings about this device.

Only way to find out is to try.

[latreche34]

Again, those things are not TBCs, they are capture devices with built in TBC, Although you may be lucky if it works in passthrough mode, that's not what it was made for and you could still get audio drift if you use it as such. But as a capture device, it looks like you got the wrong device, That one has only digital AES audio inputs/outputs, it does not have the analog inputs for capturing analog audio, While the audio module is swappable by removing the screws and replacing it with an analog module, finding such module is almost impossible. This is why always ask before buying things you're not familiar with.

[hajes29a]

I didn't buy yet. That is why I ask :-P

From manual they write about analog video input s-vhs/s-video.

There is very little about audio input except the wire standard. The version AD has got analogue balanced input/output.

I device diagram is writen

Frame sync
Stabilise
Convert

As Lordsmurf said "tbc has many meanings"

There is no info whether it works for abalog capture or not.

It is 400$. In theory it may work.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hajes29a

As Lordsmurf said "tbc has many meanings"

What's most irritating is when non-TBC are labeled TBC, such as genlock. Genlock is genlock, genlock is not TBC. And yet, "TBC" (total bull crap? )

Quote:

Originally Posted by hajes29a

I didn't buy yet. That is why I ask

But my question is why buy these at all. I know SDI has a following in non-pro-source settings. But I find it overdone in recent years. Mostly people hunting for cheap "TBC alternatives", and anything with the label "TBC" was immediately bought. That's just not how it works. If SDI workflows were best, I'd be using it. Realize I have SDI gear in a drawer, so it's a choice to not use it.

I am fine with it being a 2nd workflow, non-primary use, for non-pro sources (or the 2nd specifically for the pro sources).

[hajes29a]

As written in my previous post. Europa has nothing. 2k$ for few tapes is beyond my investing logic.

They do not claim anything about TBC. In manual diagram is written "frame sync, decomb"

It suppose to stabilise analog video with analog or SDI output.

I wanna try the analog way.

As you can see yourself. 20+y old gear worth barely 100$ selling for 2k+ ROFL

-- merged --

Maybe linear TBC in your suggested JVC 9600 deck + frame sync CVR600AD may provide something usable.

Tapes I already captured with tourist vhs player, and BMD Intensity Pro looks surprisingly decent...except chroma shifts, some noise...no jumping video, almost clean.

What I hope to achieve is reducing postprocessing. Chroma shifts, denoise. If I can reduce most of common analogue sync issues...less work afterwards.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hajes29a

As you can see yourself. 20+y old gear worth barely 100$ selling for 2k+ ROFL

And which exact pieces might that be? Most of the gear now selling for ~$2k was $500+ to $2K+ when new (I still have many of the photo/video ads from the 90s/00s), and that's before inflation over 2+ decades.

Time does not make everything decrease in price. As a photographer, you should know that about lenses. Certain lenses never went down in price, some increases, some are only 50-66% MSRP. Not junk gear from big box stores, but quality lenses only sold in professional camera shops.

All these years later, many hobbyists and DIYers seek that old pro gear. Not just photo and video, but other niches like sewing. But many also have to learn to avoid the wrong old gear. Sometimes old gear is just old, and not even worth $100.

Quote:

As written in my previous post. Europa has nothing. 2k$ for few tapes is beyond my investing logic.

Then you get into (a) budget gear, (b) abused/wrong gear. You must understand limitations of the first, and you must be careful to avoid the second.

Quote:

They do not claim anything about TBC. In manual diagram is written "frame sync, decomb"

Frame sync is frame sync, not frame sync TBC (frame TBC).

Quote:

Tapes I already captured with tourist vhs player, and BMD Intensity Pro looks surprisingly decent...except chroma shifts, some noise...no jumping video, almost clean.
What I hope to achieve is reducing postprocessing. Chroma shifts, denoise. If I can reduce most of common analogue sync issues...less work afterwards

Much of that is about the quality on the playback VCR, not processing by TBCs.

[hajes29a]

if I understand correctly, CRV600 is a waste of money because it won't sync video anyway.

Photo world is completely different animal, you can get 200Mpx+ "digital" system for less than 2000$ because modern digi kids chase the marketing hype.

I have got the best Canon, Pentax lenses ever made for fraction of price from careful owners. The best Canon EF lenses ever built was like 2k$ new, I got it for 500 as new. Because kids wanna new version, which is "better". Unlike, the analogue video, photo systems can be widely used.

You are saying, 500-2000$ new, niche market that very few do. Refurbished junk selling for same price as new ;-) It is nothing personal, there is buyer for everything. People love to pay for "special" feeling. I am not one of them. I have paid enough for chasing 1% better quality )

In the end, you end up with the best possible tourist solution...everybody loves you, everybody wanna your captures...until you say your price ROFL Modern people are funny. I am just doing old footages from our bike club...10min footage of 10h crap full of drunk "bicyclist". Club members think the 10min final video was done in 10min with no extra gear, knowledge...they feel offended if you ask 50$ per dvd ROFL

Even the old ones believe somehow if they are in footage, they are entitled for free copy, and you must serve them for free. :-D Don't get me started on post-apocalyptic kids ;-)

I am sure you know that feeling very well.

[latreche34]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hajes29a

Maybe linear TBC in your suggested JVC 9600 deck + frame sync CVR600AD may provide something usable.

Trust me on this, You would not gain anything from using the device in this way, The same converted and timed digital video output is split into SDI out and other branch goes into an internal DAC to be converted back to analog for monitoring purposes via analog sockets, What you are doing is taking that analog output and digitizing again with an external consumer capture device, It's like scanning a photograph, printing it out and scanning it again and saving the file.

I don't own the CVR600 family, Although this video shows clearly it works in passthrough, but not because the passthrough aspect of it, rather because the processed signal was rock solid before it's even converted back to analog internally and sent out to analog outputs. But I do have the S&W TBS800 and I can tell you it's the best device I have ever tested, See samples I posted in this thread. Its internal processing surpasses anything I've seen before, In that linked sample it managed to fix a second gen dub tape with baked in line timing errors by just tracking the start of the blanking intervals, There is a white paper about this tracking technology used by Analog Devices company, you can find it online, I lost the link.

Once you get a device with analog audio input and Y/C input, You would need a SDI interface to get the digital signal into computer from the SDI out, There are few options, PCIe, USB3/4 and Thunderbolt. I personally prefer the UltraStudio SDI USB2 for a laptop, but if you have a desktop you can go PCIe for cheaper SDI interface card, This step is just streaming the digital signal into your computer, it does not take up too much CPU resources. Heck they even make SDI recorders to avoid the computer all together, However the digitized files are rough and need further processing inside the computer, such as any of the following, de-interlacing, cropping, resizing, restoration, encoding.