JVC SR-V101US video signal not clean?

[MrEightThreeOne]

Hello all!

So...my third thread within a few weeks. Good grief. After a lot of adventures in attempting video capture and the like, I finally came to a conclusion -- I think my VCR (JVC SR-V101US) is outputting a bad signal. This is a new issue it didn't used to do. There is a LOT of testing I did to come to this conclusion but the TLDR of it is that my capture card is dropping frames once every 10-20 seconds, on two different methods I have tried -- FFmpeg and AmaRecTV. VirtualDub does not drop them, however I think that's actually it not being as sensitive to spotting dropped frames, as when I put a bad tape in a VCR and try to capture with it, it drops seemingly way fewer frames than it really should be. When feeding the VCR into a much worse capture card (one it used to work just fine on -- this could just as well be the card deteriorating, but considering I haven't used this thing in years, I'm doubtful), the signal does even worse -- even on the VCR's OSD with no tape being played and nothing but a blue image, it bounces and cuts out constantly.

Before you say "TBC! TBC!" -- even if I did have one, I'd still want this issue fixed. This is obviously a video error that is being introduced at the source of the chain that did not used to be there, and I would absolutely want this eliminated before proceeding forward, especially since I know it can be fixed -- it didn't used to happen, after all. I know a TBC would fix this, but what's to say the problem won't get worse with time? Could it be a capacitor failing? Who knows.

I am suspecting that this is producing a signal that is about 99% fine, but that 1% is juuuuuust bad enough that it's giving the capture cards fits. To be fair, a lot of factors have changed since the days I remember this working fine -- I've moved several times and live in a totally different place, so it could just as well be electromagnetic interference of some sort. The card itself I'm using (GV-USB2) works still -- on other sources (game console), it behaves just as it used to, with no frame drops on a good signal (I know gamers like this card the most, but again, it used to work in my setup fine, and this is to eliminate the signal source being the issue -- so there's obviously something else going on here. It's a 480i console as well, not 240p, so nothing abnormal about the video signal either. I could try a camcorder in this card as well to see if it does the same thing, if that would help anyone here feel better).

What are your suggestions to troubleshoot this problem? Again, I know a TBC would possibly fix it, and I believe that, but this is a new problem that's only recently been introduced and it could be the symptom of something much larger that I don't yet know of, so all help would be appreciated! I do know how to solder so if I need to recap the board too I can do that, but let's try the easy things first and see what could be done.

[lordsmurf]

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Originally Posted by MrEightThreeOne

Hello all!
So...my third thread within a few weeks. Good grief.

Nothing wrong with that.

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I finally came to a conclusion -- I think my VCR (JVC SR-V101US) is outputting a bad signal. This is a new issue it didn't used to do. There is a LOT of testing I did to come to this conclusion but the TLDR of it

I need the long non-TL;DR version, as that claim is unusual.

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VirtualDub does not drop them, however I think that's actually it not being as sensitive to spotting dropped frames,

No.
Did you disable reporting, by unchecking the top two boxes in timing settings?

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is that my capture card is dropping frames once every 10-20 seconds, on two different methods I have tried -- FFmpeg and AmaRecTV.
as when I put a bad tape in a VCR and try to capture with it, it drops seemingly way fewer frames than it really should be.

Lack of frame TBC in the workflow is still most likely.

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this could just as well be the card deteriorating, but considering I haven't used this thing in years, I'm doubtful),

Perhaps. Lots of tech items decay, used or not. Out of maintenance first, the failures next.

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What are your suggestions to troubleshoot this problem?

Have you changed computers yet? Eliminate that variable.

[MrEightThreeOne]

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Originally Posted by lordsmurf

I need the long non-TL;DR version, as that claim is unusual.

So, I posted about this on VideoHelp and you replied in it, but I'll go ahead and reiterate here with some additional details.

Basically, this was a setup that *used* to provide good results. I hadn't done captures in FOREVER, but in the meanwhile I did use the VCR (yeah, not my smartest move I know, but nothing that can be done about it now), so there's a possibility wear and tear caused this to occur, some of the reason I am suspicious.

This setup, which used to give me good results without the issue of inserted frames once every 10-20 seconds (stopped or playing), is now doing this. I have tried three different methods, two of them do this, one doesn't but I'm having trouble believing it's telling me the truth with the bad audio drift coming in. (granted, that's a very exaggerated example, but you'd have to let a 100% clean tape capture for like two hours before this would start to become obvious, of which I know such a thing absolutely does not exist and putting a TBC in the workflow would defeat the purpose of troubleshooting this)

I think the last time I did any serious capture work was back in 2018 or so. I checked several captures I did through AmaRec with this method -- well, the Dazzle specifically, I'm not sure I have any good GV-USB2 stuff from the time and I'll have to dig through my hard drives, but -- and while I found inserted frames, in a 45 minute long video of a decently error-prone tape (more horizontal than vertical errors, unlike the other tape I mentioned), it was still once every 10 or so minutes, not 10 seconds. And as I said, this card absolutely won't capture this VCR worth anything now -- I have yet to run the "other sources" test, but if it's happy with those, that further gives credibility to the idea. I'm using one of the same computers I used to do captures with too which is further making me skeptical.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

No.
Did you disable reporting, by unchecking the top two boxes in timing settings?

Nope. Is that the "Drop frames when captured frames are too close together" and "insert null frames when captured frames are too far apart" settings? Wouldn't disabling that do more harm than good?

I speak from personal experience, but in general, VDub tends to do much worse with keeping audio synced; AmaRec is really good at staying in sync even when video errors appear left and right. This is anecdotal of course, and if there's ways to fix that, let me know (you probably largely don't have to deal with it due to using TBCs, though no source is perfect and frame drops can never 100% go away so you may still know). I could try the bad tape again and put it both through AmaRec and VDub to see what the results are. But still, the fact that it was seemingly reporting fewer than I was actually getting and the final output having horribly audio drift is definitely a cause for concern.

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Originally Posted by lordsmurf

Lack of frame TBC in the workflow is still most likely.

Probably. But again, it didn't used to do this, so color me a little skeptical that nothing is wrong with the VCR.

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Originally Posted by lordsmurf

Perhaps. Lots of tech items decay, used or not. Out of maintenance first, the failures next.

Tell me about it. As a fan of retro computers and consoles...I feel this, haha.

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Originally Posted by lordsmurf

Have you changed computers yet? Eliminate that variable.

Yep. My main daily driver and a laptop I used to do captures on both exhibit this issue, identical behavior on AmaRec.

If you have any more questions, let me know. I'll be as descriptive as I need to be.

[lordsmurf]

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Originally Posted by MrEightThreeOne

So, I posted about this on VideoHelp and you replied in it.

I mostly just replied to jagabo.
I'll read the above post in a few days, reply back.

[MrEightThreeOne]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

I mostly just replied to jagabo.
I'll read the above post in a few days, reply back.

No worries!

One additional thing worth mentioning -- I used to have another model of this VCR that I recently handed off to a friend, it was a defective unit that also came from eBay, but the only issue with it is that it didn't play hi-fi audio. I could ask him to bring it with him next time we meet up and see about trying a capture on it and see if it exhibits the same issue. That won't happen for another couple of weeks but it's maybe worth a try.

-- merged --

So...disregard everything, turns out I drew the wrong conclusion and my VCR is fine. Sorry about the confusion! Feel free to delete this thread if need be. Turns out I just had the perfect storm of tapes bad enough plus the OSD throwing me for a loop.

[lordsmurf]

Even "nope, I'm wrong" threads are useful.

[aramkolt]

If you still want the "bad tapes" converted, depending on how many it is, I'd be willing to do it for free if you let me keep some of the worst ones after.

Reason I want bad tapes is that they would be quite useful in my testing of a variety of TBCs I've acquired. Eventually I'll post a grand-comparison showing how well each TBC works in a variety of tests all done on the same starting material.

Same goes for anyone else that has particularly difficult tape and wants it converted. My requirements are that it is not an alignment thing where there is a bunch of horizontal static and the tape itself looks physically fine (not sticky shed syndrome or creased/crinkled).

PM me if interested.

[MrEightThreeOne]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aramkolt

If you still want the "bad tapes" converted, depending on how many it is, I'd be willing to do it for free if you let me keep some of the worst ones after.

Reason I want bad tapes is that they would be quite useful in my testing of a variety of TBCs I've acquired. Eventually I'll post a grand-comparison showing how well each TBC works in a variety of tests all done on the same starting material.

Same goes for anyone else that has particularly difficult tape and wants it converted. My requirements are that it is not an alignment thing where there is a bunch of horizontal static and the tape itself looks physically fine (not sticky shed syndrome or creased/crinkled).

PM me if interested.

Thanks for the offer but I don't think I'm interested. It's nothing high value, it's just an old TV recording of a car race from the early 2000s. Best of luck in your endeavors though!