Sony TRV-103 Digital8 playback glitching?

[BrainRotTrash]

Hi all, hoping some smart people might be able to help offer some guidance with my Sony TRV103 Digital8 camcorder.

I'm the original owner of this, and have always treated it with care, but it seems its age is getting the better of it. I have 50 to 60 Digital8 tapes of various brands, but they all are showing blocky glitches during playback/importing to my computer.

I've tried head cleaner tapes on this unit and it does not seem to do any good, BUT the one thing i've noticed that does seem to help is recording for a few minutes on another tape, then switching back to the one I was trying to import. This seems to alleviate some of the glitching for a while.

Does this seem to point to any particular component I could try to fix in this camcorder? I really want to import all my old DHi8 tapes before its too late. Maybe this camcorder is just toast? If its done for, what model would you recommend I try to get off eBay to replace it with?

Thank you for any ideas you can offer.

[aramkolt]

Cleaning tapes often don't do that good of a job unfortunately. Sometimes the pinch roller will start to slip out of place as well, so you want to make sure the little center plastic stopper on the end is pushed down all the way - Pinch roller could also probably use a clean. They say isopropyl alcohol is not good to use on rubber surfaces, so I always use American Recorder S-721H (which according to the MSDS sheet is just 100% hexane).

If you want something that can play all 8mm (Hi8, Video8, Digital8), formats, has stereo audio outputs, and TBC for analog recordings (Hi8 and Video8), then the DCR-TRV120 is a pretty solid choice. Really any model that ends in "20" should have that feature set. I know the 120, 320, 520, and 720 all do. As far as differences between them, it's basically just whether they have a flash memory slot for still photos and the size of the LCD display, all of which do not matter for video capturing. There are other models that have the tape deck open from the bottom, so if you prefer that loading style, it isn't wrong to go with those. I personally think it's much easier to get at the video head for cleaning the "top load" mechanisms though.

If you're 100% certain that all of your content is Digital8, then really any Digital8 Sony camera should be fine (use cosmetic condition as an indicator for how well it was cared for). You should be capturing D8 content via firewire as that will preserve the native DV format and is indeed a lossless transfer. Analog transfers (Hi8 and Video8) you could get slightly better results out of the S-Video output with the right capture card and TBC, but honestly capturing those via the same firewire "as DV" is pretty decent as well with no potential for audio sync issues. If you're worried about losing your memories, I'd capture everything as DV first and then go for a second pass via S-Video if you aren't happy with the quality after you've acquired analog capture gear.

[BrainRotTrash]

Thanks so much for your reply, I really appreciate all the info! I think I do have a few regular Hi8 tapes too, so I might look into buying another similar camera on eBay and hope it works long enough to do all my imports. Maybe I can luck out and ask around if anyone I know has one I could borrow

All of a sudden it's really stressing me out having all these old tapes that I don't have a way to watch!
Thanks again for all the helpful info!!

[lordsmurf]

To add:

There are surely detailed methods to fix this, and it will surely be very time consuming.

So I have to ask: Do you really want to spend all your time fixing a camera, or did you really want to captur/archive/watch the old family videotapes?

- If the former, then read read read, lots of time, and you'll hopefully/maybe get it done someday.
- If the latter, spend $100-200 on eBay, get a "new" (new to you) Digital8 camera. Compared to most video playback items, Digital8 cameras are insanely cheap.

My common advice to others: Don't be such a cheapskate that you lose sight of the goal. Was the goal the video, or is the goal to become a camera repairman?

That assumes you are 100% sure it's Digital8, not Hi8 or Video8. Note that 8mm Sony tapes can be used for any format, so "the labels says" is not determinative of the actual tape content/format.

[BrainRotTrash]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

To add:

There are surely detailed methods to fix this, and it will surely be very time consuming.

So I have to ask: Do you really want to spend all your time fixing a camera, or did you really want to captur/archive/watch the old family videotapes?

- If the former, then read read read, lots of time, and you'll hopefully/maybe get it done someday.
- If the latter, spend $100-200 on eBay, get a "new" (new to you) Digital8 camera. Compared to most video playback items, Digital8 cameras are insanely cheap.

My common advice to others: Don't be such a cheapskate that you lose sight of the goal. Was the goal the video, or is the goal to become a camera repairman?

That assumes you are 100% sure it's Digital8, not Hi8 or Video8. Note that 8mm Sony tapes can be used for any format, so "the labels says" is not determinative of the actual tape content/format.

Thanks for the insight! Yes, i'd say 95% of all my important tapes are D8, I got my TRV103 camera when I was younger and recorded almost all my tapes on this camera. I have boxes of them in my closet so I really need to take the time to archive them properly.

Like you said, being a repairman is not my goal. I was just hoping in the off chance, the fact that recording a few min on a different tape prior to attempting to import a tape clears up the glitching might point to an easy thing to fix -- but it seems like grabbing a new-to-me camcorder off eBay is the way to go.

Thanks again for all the helpful info!!

[latreche34]

From your description of the problem it sounds like one or more of your tapes is causing the head clog, I would get those long flat sticks with a cleaning pad at the tip and clean the heads manually, Start with the less problematic tapes and move up to the more problematic tapes, Tape tension can cause heads to clog, Although they are delicate, sometimes it is necessary to fast forward the tape and rewind it to relieve the tension and the stickiness of the tape layers from sitting for years unused.

Mould can cause head clog as well, if you see white stuff on it or hear the tape crunching it is a sign of it. There is also one tape formulation that didn't age well, It's called ME (Metal Evaporated), leave these for last if you have any, Baking them can sometimes reduce the sticky shed syndrome.

Make buying another camcorder the last resort, because if your tapes are the problem, chances are you'll be in the same situation with any camcorder.

We had a discussion about 8mm tapes before, Have a read:
https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vid...uring-hi8.html

[vwestlife]

Maybe you're trying to play LP mode Digital8 recordings? The TRV103 only supports SP mode. Sony didn't introduce LP until a few years later.

[BrainRotTrash]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vwestlife

Maybe you're trying to play LP mode Digital8 recordings? The TRV103 only supports SP mode. Sony didn't introduce LP until a few years later.

Thanks for all the ideas guys! All the D8 tapes i'm trying to play were made using the actual camera i'm trying to play them back on now, so I don't think it's a matter of LP vs SP D8 tapes, I think it's just because this camcorder is breathing it's last breath.

I just found out a buddy of mine has a TRV130 that he's going to let me borrow and see if it works any better, so i'm crossing my fingers! I'll post back here and let you all know if that solves my issue.

Thanks again for all the ideas!

[aramkolt]

Just one tip on the TRV130, that one does digital-only playback, so if any of your tapes are Hi8 or Video8, they'll appear to be blank. Since most of your tapes were made on that TRV103, they will be mostly digital as you mentioned. Still good to use it to verify that the issue truly is the camera which is almost a certainty. D8 tapes seem to hold up pretty well in my (admittedly limited) experience.

I've also heard certain tape brands/formulations almost always going bad - HMPX tapes from Sony in particular which was a specific formulation of MP (Evaporated Metal Particle)

I only have one MP tape (though it's not that HXMP type) and it plays fine.

Capture them by Firewire DV with something like WinDV (since it's a lossless transfer for D8 tapes) for sure since you don't know how many "good" playbacks you'll get if the tape is of a type that is fragile or going to shed. You'll know it's happening if the tape starts out clear on that 130 camera and then the playback looks more and more "snowy" or "staticy" as it plays. If you find one tape that does it, I'd stop that capture, clean the video head, and put all tapes of that same brand and type in a separate pile to transfer LAST so that you can get through the other tapes that are less likely to have the problem first.

[BrainRotTrash]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aramkolt

Just one tip on the TRV130, that one does digital-only playback, so if any of your tapes are Hi8 or Video8, they'll appear to be blank. Since most of your tapes were made on that TRV103, they will be mostly digital as you mentioned. Still good to use it to verify that the issue truly is the camera which is almost a certainty. D8 tapes seem to hold up pretty well in my (admittedly limited) experience.

I've also heard certain tape brands/formulations almost always going bad - HMPX tapes from Sony in particular which was a specific formulation of MP (Evaporated Metal Particle)

I only have one MP tape (though it's not that HXMP type) and it plays fine.

Capture them by Firewire DV with something like WinDV (since it's a lossless transfer for D8 tapes) for sure since you don't know how many "good" playbacks you'll get if the tape is of a type that is fragile or going to shed. You'll know it's happening if the tape starts out clear on that 130 camera and then the playback looks more and more "snowy" or "staticy" as it plays. If you find one tape that does it, I'd stop that capture, clean the video head, and put all tapes of that same brand and type in a separate pile to transfer LAST so that you can get through the other tapes that are less likely to have the problem first.

These are great tips, thank you!!

One other question, I'll be importing these tapes on an older Mac that has ports i can adapt the firewire to plug in (no access to a PC here), do you have any knowledge on the best way to import them? Something similar to the WinDV app for lossless import? I have access to Final Cut and iMovie, but would be happy to download a more appropriate app if it imports the raw DV files

Thank you all for the guidance!

P.s. I just came across this, https://leolabs.org/blog/capture-minidv-on-macos/ Maybe it'll work for D8 tapes too? Or maybe iMovie/Final Cut would get the job done equally well without the use of Terminal?

[vwestlife]

Digital8 and MiniDV both use the exact same DV video format, so as far as the software on your computer is concerned, there is no difference between them.

[BrainRotTrash]

Good news! Borrowed my friends camera and have been able to successfully import around 30 tapes so far! Yay!

I guess my old camcorder is just messed up, which is a bummer but as long as I can import all my tapes i'm a happy camper :-)

Now I just need to find a way to get the 7 or 8 regular Hi8 tapes imported that this borrowed TRV130 won't play

Thanks for all the help guys!

[lordsmurf]

I knew it.

I'm glad to see you now capturing your tapes, the project you always intended.

When it comes to the Hi8, you may find it's far more challenging that a Digital8 video. You'll need not just a Hi8 camcorder, but TBCs, and a quality analog capture card. Don't make the mistake of just buying the cheapest POS (or even an expensive POS like Elgato or Clearclick), and eBay isn't your friend for capture cards, VCRs, or TBCs.

One project at a time. Finish that Digital8, then come back for more advice when ready.

Happy capturing, good luck.

[vwestlife]

Since I'm the resident DV apologist, having a Digital8 camcorder which supports analog playback makes capturing Hi8 and Video8 just as simple as Digital8. They all have a built-in TBC (maybe not the best, but certainly much better than nothing). Just make sure the Digital NR is turned off, as that will cause color trailing artifacts.

[BrainRotTrash]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vwestlife

Since I'm the resident DV apologist, having a Digital8 camcorder which supports analog playback makes capturing Hi8 and Video8 just as simple as Digital8. They all have a built-in TBC (maybe not the best, but certainly much better than nothing). Just make sure the Digital NR is turned off, as that will cause color trailing artifacts.

Great info to know, thank you! And thanks lordsmurf for your info as well!
Is the digital NR setting somewhere in some menu options?

If my old TRV103 had those issues playing back Digital8 tapes, might there be any hope that it'll play back the regular Hi8 tapes I have? I haven't tried yet, since i'm trying to get all my D8 tapes imported on this borrowed TRV130 first.

Its been so much fun watching all these old tapes!

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vwestlife

Since I'm the resident DV apologist,

But the difference is you know it has weaknesses. You're not one of the "DV is bestest ever!" goobers, fondling their 1990s devices. That's the important difference.

[vwestlife]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrainRotTrash

Is the digital NR setting somewhere in some menu options?

I looked it up and the TRV103 does not have an option to disable the TBC, nor is there an option for DNR, but I don't know whether that means it's on all the time or if it doesn't have DNR.

Later Digital8 models like the TRV330 do have options to enable or disable the TBC and DNR on analog playback, for example as seen on page 82 of this manual: https://www.sony.com/electronics/support/res/manuals/3065/30652621M.pdf