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  #1  
11-20-2019, 10:48 AM
Rhetro Rhetro is offline
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Hello All,

Iím in the initial stages of converting a collection of Hi8 mm tapes for archiving; theyíve sat collecting dust long enough.

I have a Sony EVO-9850 that I would like to use to output to a computer. I have a PC and a MacBook Pro (2012). I still havenít decided which computer to use yet. This is another topic.

The outputs of the 9850 are XLR for the audio, and S-video and BnC for the video. From what Iíve read so far, I should just use the S-video to connect to whatever adapter I choose -still working on this as well.

Any input/suggestions?


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  #2  
11-20-2019, 12:16 PM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
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That deck is a Video8 player, it will not playback Hi8 tapes.
S-Video is always better than composite, and MAC computers are not suitable for capturing analog video, very little support for capture cards and devices.
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  #3  
11-20-2019, 12:28 PM
msgohan msgohan is offline
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It says Hi8 right on the cassette door. Other than that I agree with latreche34's comments.
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  #4  
11-20-2019, 02:08 PM
Rhetro Rhetro is offline
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Thanks guys.
Ok. So PC it is

Looking at the following hardware interfaces:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...mini_with.html

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ..._Recorder.html

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...Converter.html
Not sure about this last one (damn expensive)

Unless you gentlemen have any recommendations?
I’m in NYC at the moment so I can actually walk over to B&H

I really appreciate the help!
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  #5  
11-20-2019, 03:14 PM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msgohan View Post
It says Hi8 right on the cassette door.
Google images are not reliable all the time, aren't they?
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  #6  
11-20-2019, 03:23 PM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhetro View Post
Thanks guys.
Ok. So PC it is

Looking at the following hardware interfaces:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...mini_with.html

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ..._Recorder.html

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...Converter.html
Not sure about this last one (damn expensive)

Unless you gentlemen have any recommendations?
Iím in NYC at the moment so I can actually walk over to B&H

I really appreciate the help!
For that amount of money a professional will be happy to capture the tapes for you and put them on a golden SD card and probably have some money left for the popcorn. No you don't need such expensive devices for capturing consumer video tapes, those where designed for professional workflows where the signal is more stable than a lousy VHS or video8 formats. It's like riding a limousine to go to school.
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  #7  
11-20-2019, 03:50 PM
Rhetro Rhetro is offline
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Lol! Good point

I’m no expert -and definitely don’t mind paying for their time. But the amount of tapes that I have to convert would probably far exceed the cost of that middle of the road unit to have it done professionally. At some point I need to get my feet wet. It’s really about digitizing them, and getting the info off the tape and into a computer. I can restore/edit/play with the footage later as I learn the craft.

Oops. I forgot this one:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...SB_Analog.html

What do you guys use for this sort of thing?

Last edited by Rhetro; 11-20-2019 at 03:55 PM. Reason: Forgot to include a pic
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  #8  
11-21-2019, 06:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by latreche34 View Post
It's like riding a limousine to go to school.
Good analogy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhetro View Post
What do you guys use for this sort of thing?
Precisely this: http://www.digitalFAQ.com/editorials...g-workflow.htm

Also, in the marketplace,
- http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/mark...-workflow.html
- http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/mark...bc-1000-a.html
- http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/mark...e-jvc-vhs.html

Elgato is crap.
Blackmagic is not for consumer (VHS, etc) sources. Worse yet, you can actually buy all that pricey gear, and still get miserable quality, beacuse it's not designed for said sources. For starters, there is no TBC or TBC-like anything in there, and the capture cards will all freak out. Wrong tool. Like trying to hit a nail with a screwdriver, or knock in a screw with a hammer. Use the proper tools for the tasks.

On costs: buy it, use it, resell it. It's a project purchase, not a forever purchase.

- Did my advice help you? Then become a Premium Member and support this site.
- For sale in the marketplace: TBCs, workflows, capture cards, VCRs
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  #9  
11-21-2019, 08:10 AM
Rhetro Rhetro is offline
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Thanks, guys.
That’s an excellent article for setting the stage in what I’m getting myself into -should I elect to take the plunge. The notion that I can just buy/use/sell the equipment is a comforting one. This is all about achieving a task. It very well could be that I may elect to quit after the first tape and just piecemeal them out to a pro. Please note that I have no allusions about doing this professionally. In the unlikely event that I develop an interest in doing this it would only be with the original goal in mind, i.e., digital conversion of some 80 or so hi 8mm tapes. Once complete, I can’t see myself hanging a sign out my door holding out to the public as some sort of professional; I have many other interests that take up my time. However, given initial cost involved it doesn’t seem to be too cost prohibitive (not that it can’t get there). Before I run anywhere and buy anything I need to continue to read and research this.
Just curious:How much COULD it run me JUST to get the stuff cleaned up and digitized?
Is there an industry standard rate per 8mm tape? Just spitballing ..

And thanks ! A lot!
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  #10  
11-21-2019, 01:29 PM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
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The cost really depends on your goals and how much effort you want to put into it and what problems that may arise, In other words you could start with a well known $40-$70 USB or PCI capture card from the late 90's early 2000's, a windows 7 PC that you may already have and the deck that you already have, the software is free such as Vdub but has a learning curve, It could well be the scenario for all your tapes and that's it everybody is happy. The cost could go up when you start having problems like some tapes miss-track now you need another deck or camcorder, then you get some other signal problems and frame jumping, so you need an external TBC, then you find out that you get audio or video problems and you find out the capture card doesn't work with the other upgraded pieces....etc, etc, etc.
It certainly requires a lot of dedication and know how and sometimes it turns into a money pit.
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  #11  
11-21-2019, 03:45 PM
Rhetro Rhetro is offline
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Thanks again for the input

and for keeping it a little more real than the retailers would like you to realize -they just want to sell you shit -it’s what they do.
It looks like all this can get out of hand real quick...especially with the equipment.
The only thing in my arsenal so far are the two tape players
1) Sony EVO-9850
2) Sony SVO-9600

From what I read, the EVO-9850 already has a built in TBC ( i don’t know how good it is, but if it is, that will save me a few bucks).

All I need now (to just get started) is that card or interface that will input into the PC. You mentioned the Elegato being crap -check, I’ll stay away from it. But the Blackmagic not being suitable for consumer grade but would it work with what I have ? The 9850 is definitely pro grade isn’t it? (Both Sony units were given to me by someone one long ago -long story)
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  #12  
11-21-2019, 07:45 PM
msgohan msgohan is offline
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My experience with Blackmagic Intensity Pro 4K: https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/...-%28Nope%21%29

It shouldn't take much searching to find other people's frustrations with using Blackmagic for consumer formats (here, their own forum, random YouTube videos, etc).

Your deck being pro doesn't solve the problem of the format itself being an unstable consumer spec rather than a broadcast spec. The TBC would be line TBC to straighten horizontal wiggles, not frame TBC.
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  #13  
11-22-2019, 12:41 AM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
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The question is why would you drop $500 on a capture device when a $50 card for example can do the exact same job or better in most cases? You are free to do whatever you want we just want to steer your enthusiasm in the right direction.
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  #14  
11-22-2019, 01:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhetro View Post
The only thing in my arsenal so far are the two tape players
1) Sony EVO-9850
2) Sony SVO-9600
BTW, I'm not fond of Hi8/Video8 decks whatsoever, only cameras. Same for MiniDV, decks are terrible. Inversely, VHS/VHS-C (even S-VHS/S-VHS-C) cameras are junk.

Quote:
has a built in TBC ... that will save me a few bucks).
Nope. Line TBC in a player is not frame TBC. You need both. Line (mostly) cleans the image, while frame (mostly) cleans the signal. You also must get TBCs specific to consumer analog formats (usually specific DataVideo, specific Cypress, few others), not just any ol' TBC.

That's why I made guides on the site --- read them.
Example: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vide...time-base.html

Quote:
But the Blackmagic not being suitable for consumer grade but would it work with what I have ?
Hi8/Video8 is consumer. No, unlikely.

Quote:
The 9850 is definitely pro grade isnít it?
"It's pro because we say so ... that's what our sticker says!"

Furthermore, "pro" doesn't mean what you think it does. Pro is either
(1) more often about the intended usage; in this case , the source/tape formats
(2) marketing to professionals, even when the item itself is lousy (yet expensive), because there is an audience of low-knowledge professionals that only buy "the best" (because the company said it was, not because it actually is)

Quote:
Originally Posted by msgohan View Post
My experience with Blackmagic Intensity Pro 4K: https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/...-%28Nope%21%29
It shouldn't take much searching to find other people's frustrations with using Blackmagic for consumer formats (here, their own forum, random YouTube videos, etc).
Your deck being pro doesn't solve the problem of the format itself being an unstable consumer spec rather than a broadcast spec. The TBC would be line TBC to straighten horizontal wiggles, not frame TBC.
^ This.

Quote:
Originally Posted by latreche34 View Post
The question is why would you drop $500 on a capture device when a $50 card for example can do the exact same job or better in most cases?
I've confronted this line of thought for decades. Very often, this is simply a case of marketers suckering low-knowledge or newbie users, including those that claiming to be "professional". I've come across far too many people with a fancy doodad that was the wrong tool. When confronted, the person blusters, insists "that's what pros use", and don't want to discuss it any more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by latreche34 View Post
The cost really depends on ... how much effort you want to put into it
Depending the conversation, effort and cost may have no overlap. Spending more money may not buy results any more than time can. It's hard to make that general statement, when it comes to video. I've come across projects when infinite time and money have either diminishing returns or no effect on outcome.

Quote:
In other words you could start with a well known $40-$70 USB or PCI capture card from the late 90's early 2000's, a windows 7 PC that you may already have and the deck that you already have, the software is free such as Vdub but has a learning curve, It could well be the scenario for all your tapes and that's it everybody is happy.
No TBC = highly unlikely.
Not even worth attempting. Even those that insist the "video looks fine" are either fooling themselves, or simply have no noticed the flaws yet. Far too many start a capture, walk away, then deem it a success without even viewing the results, or viewing the results carefully.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhetro View Post
Just curious:How much COULD it run me JUST to get the stuff cleaned up and digitized? per 8mm tape? Just spitballing ..
How many tapes?
Are the tapes full 2 hours each?

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  #15  
11-22-2019, 06:59 AM
Rhetro Rhetro is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by latreche34 View Post
The question is why would you drop $500 on a capture device when a $50 card for example can do the exact same job or better in most cases? You are free to do whatever you want we just want to steer your enthusiasm in the right direction.
Man, you guys are good..
Definitely steering my enthusiasm in the right place -thatís for sure.
Ok, beginning to see whatís going on here (I think). Itís more than just getting a clean signal chain with the TBC making the lines going away -weíre talking frame alignment TBC stuff? I know. I know. Iíll keep reading (thereís a link in here somewhere for some homework.

First of all, the camera (and later 2 other subsequent cameras) gave up the ghost a long time ago. When I was given those tape decks I was exhilarated that I had something to playback/and review, and therefore determine what needed to be digitized, and what didnít. I got a Pinnacle something or another back in 05 and it worked great for a while ( I think I did like 10 tapes with it). It sounds that I need to revisit THIS mindset as opposed to the equipment that Iíve been browsing at lately.

If I decide to do this, then aim at the workflow stations that you guys are talking about, and stop this B&H nonsense. I think they call it, ďPatienceĒ?

My fear is that these decks (as old as they are) are going to disintegrate, cease to work, or worse eat the tapes. I suppose their is NO guarantee that canít happen anywhere but i feel like thereís a little more control in me messing with it; the tapes are there at home, I donít have to send them out (losing them in the mail), cost, etc. However, if I have to go that route:

I have about 80 120min hi 8mm tapes. Most of those tape are full -itís safe to presume that they are.

If you guys are wondering about the implied secrecy, yes thereís some of that. I worked for 20 years as a private investigator. So about 3/4 of the tapes contain confidential case information with subjects, addresses, and people getting busted doing things they shouldnít have been. To the naked eye, itís extremely boring for most people -except PIs and lawyers. These cases have resolved long ago. But Iíve seen strange things happen.
The other 1/3 of the tapes are me being a dipshit in college and family stuff -also boring for most people.

So: I promise. I will not buy anything -yet If so, it will be a simple capture card or device, and efficient and proven software. As i read, research, and continue down this path -yes, itís possible that I can throw in the towel at any second. But, Iím going home in a couple of days, and (aside from the two Sony decks) can report back with EXACTLY what I have computer wise.
On that note: Should I just take the Sony decks out of the loop? Are they truly garbage for what Iím trying to do? If so -fine. Perhaps thereís another reason why they were ďgivenĒ to me.

Thanks again, truly.
Iíll report back with what I got!
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  #16  
11-22-2019, 07:06 AM
Rhetro Rhetro is offline
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[QUOTE

That's why I made guides on the site --- read them.
Example: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vide...time-base.html
[/QUOTE]
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  #17  
11-22-2019, 07:09 AM
Rhetro Rhetro is offline
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Ok. Reading this....!
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  #18  
11-22-2019, 12:12 PM
cbehr91 cbehr91 is offline
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If you have Video/Hi8 tapes encoded with PCM audio like I do you have no choice but to use an editing deck. No Video/Hi8 camera I know of was made with PCM compatibility.
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  #19  
11-23-2019, 07:44 PM
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WarbirdVideos WarbirdVideos is offline
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I'm doing the same thing right now. I have two EVO-9720 dual Hi8 decks, with built in TBC's, but all four decks suffer from minor ghosting due to bad electrolytic capacitors. So on to plan "B".

I'm now using a Sony GV-D200 (which also has a TBC) outputting through the S-video port into a Pinnacle 710-USB and then to VirtualDub. Since the GV D200 does not read PCM audio, I'm using the EVO-9720 to capture the PCM sound and will sync it up later in Vegas Video. If your 9850 does have cap issues, you can buy a GV-D200 on Ebay for $3-400. I just bought one and it was in great condition.

After years of cleaning tape heads, I've found that the best way (for me anyway) is to use an small (1/8th inch) artist paint brush dipped in denatured alcohol to gently clean the heads. You can actually see small particles come out of the heads when they're dirty. Then I use a wetted tech-wipe to clear any debris left behind. And of course compressed air to finish.

After 25 years, the old HMPX still looks as good as when I recorded it with my EVW-300. There was a lot of talk back then about the 2 hour tapes stretching because they the base was too thin, and they wouldn't last, but I made the decision back then to use them because I was shooting a lot of corporate training sessions and need longer running tapes.
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11-25-2019, 09:06 AM
Rhetro Rhetro is offline
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Hey Warbirds!

Coincidently, I just found my Pinnacle 710-USB Rev:1.0 (I thought I had it laying around somewhere...)
I donít have anything that came with it. The software is probably outdated and Iíve gone through a couple of computer systems since then -donít even think I have the software any more..

Canít say when the last time any of my decks were cap checked. But letís just say that they havenít been used in quite a while. I turned on the 9850 about a week ago and it played a tape just fine -thatís all I know. I do have a tech here in town that services them if need be.

Well. Iím back home, and I said that I would post what I have:

Equipment list:

PC with an i5-4460 at 3.2GHZ running 64bit With 1 TB of diskspace
Sony EVO-9850
Sony SVO-9600
Pinnacle 710-USB Rev:1.0 (No software, or cables, not even sure it works -but I can try)
Vanco 4 input switcher

So thatís it folks. I never went to B&H, so I did NOT purchase anything ;]

Warbirds: I know a dude here in town that has an insane collection of warbirds. Rod Lewis with Lewis Energy. Youíve probably heard the name if you film these things.


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