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10-08-2020, 06:25 PM
WaxEgger WaxEgger is offline
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I've slowly been picking up the hobby of transferring tapes. I've probably done around 300 tapes now, of various formats, and have experienced a handful of challenges.

I don't have the perfect set-up, but am dialing it in as I go along. I'm working to find a good balance between cost and effectiveness.

I do have nice player - the JVC HR-S7800U in pristine condition. I'm using a capture card that isn't unanimously loved - the ADVC110. Importing with Final Cut Pro X on my Macbook Pro, but I don't expect that have any influence on my issue.

I've messed around with running the 7800U through a Videonics MX-1. In some circumstances it does help. It seems to rarely fix footage, although it at least provides one stable long digital file rather than 100 broke clips.

Rather than providing a clean unbroken video, it still has dropped frames but replaces them with glitchy hectic scattered screens wherever the time code is really bad. And on top of this, in the process of trying to resolve the time base errors, often the top 30 pixels or so of the video will glitch and periodically shift to the right.

I'm eventually prepared to splurge on a Datavideo TBC-1000, if this is the answer to my problems. However, I'm hesitant before seeking professional advice.

Will getting a TBC-1000 fix my problems? Will it give me one solid digital file when imported into my computer, without all sorts of dropped frames or crazy glitching? Will I be able to run VHS-C and other formats through it with the same effect?

I'm truly trying to learn the craft, and would appreciate kind and helpful answers. Please be nice to a newbie like me. I'm aware that many of you prefer PC using Virtualdub, and also prefer other built-in capture cards rather than the Canopus.
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  #2  
10-08-2020, 06:57 PM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WaxEgger View Post
I've probably done around 300 tapes now, of various formats, and have experienced a handful of challenges.
That's a lot of tapes, especially for less-than-ideal gear.

Quote:
I don't have the perfect set-up, but am dialing it in as I go along. I'm working to find a good balance between cost and effectiveness.
Some corners can be cut, others cannot.
But there's also trade-offs.
- When you cut corners on the capture card, the TBCs and VCRs become even more important for NOT cutting corners.
- Cutting corners on VCR requires specifics on TBC(ish) and capture cards.
- Cutting corners on TBC requires certain quality from VCR and capture card.

Quote:
I do have nice player - the JVC HR-S7800U in pristine condition.
Yes, good.

Quote:
I'm using a capture card that isn't unanimously loved - the ADVC110. Importing with Final Cut Pro X on my Macbook Pro, but I don't expect that have any influence on my issue.
Quality hit, lost color data, but can be tolerable if all else is perfect in the workflow. A single problem is more tolerable that multiple quality problems. Not ideal, not even necessarily good, but tolerable.

For Mac, depending on OS version, DV may be the only feasible workflow. What OS do you have?

Quote:
I've messed around with running the 7800U through a Videonics MX-1. In some circumstances it does help. It seems to rarely fix footage, although it at least provides one stable long digital file rather than 100 broke clips.
From what I've read, it may be a frame sync, but it's not a frame sync TBC. So what you observe would fit into that.

Quote:
Rather than providing a clean unbroken video, it still has dropped frames but replaces them with glitchy hectic scattered screens wherever the time code is really bad. And on top of this, in the process of trying to resolve the time base errors, often the top 30 pixels or so of the video will glitch and periodically shift to the right.
None of that sounds good. It's very likely a two-part issue here: bad signal, bad capture card. Again, if everything else in the workflow is ideal, that DV box can be tolerated. If not, you have a mess to deal with. Which seems to be the case here.

Quote:
I'm eventually prepared to splurge on a Datavideo TBC-1000, if this is the answer to my problems. However, I'm hesitant before seeking professional advice.
This is never a bad idea. Buy it, use it, resell it. You will recoup some (or all) of the costs at a later date. This is a project purchase, not a forever purchase. When done, you don't stick it in a drawer with the used walkman. If this is for longterm use, then that usually means some way to recoup funds on it.Even if no recoup, just consider it a hobby purchase outright, and understand all hobbies cost money. Video is actually a cheap hobby, even with the TBC costs. Your HDTV/players are likely just as costly. My only hobby that costs less than video is stamp collecting.

Quote:
Will getting a TBC-1000 fix my problems? Will it give me one solid digital file when imported into my computer, without all sorts of dropped frames or crazy glitching? Will I be able to run VHS-C and other formats through it with the same effect?
Probably. The glitching is from inside the Canopus box, and is likely the fault of a bad signal, especially if you're also getting dropped frames. (BTW, you see that the Canopus box does drop frames!) If the glitching persists, even after TBC, then the Canopus box is failing. But that's less likely than simply needing to add a TBC.

Quote:
I'm truly trying to learn the craft, and would appreciate kind and helpful answers. Please be nice to a newbie like me. I'm aware that many of you prefer PC using Virtualdub, and also prefer other built-in capture cards rather than the Canopus.
Hopefully the above helps.

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  #3  
10-11-2020, 02:17 PM
Eric-Jan Eric-Jan is offline
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Frames dropped over a Firewire transfer ? , never had dropped frames in my time with the ADVC100. (66/100MHz CPU)
There isnt much software that supports Firewire on MAC as far as i know, i've tried that, waste of (my) time.
On MAC a semi pro capture card/device is a better choice, otherwise downgrading to old (Intel) windows OS's would be a better choice.
Lordsmurf asked this already: which version MAC and OS you are using ? System wise there are a lot of differences on "a" MAC, 32bit or 64bit version of the OS and the year "make" of the MAC hardware will give you different interface options, plus not all MAC software is available for 64bit in different situations it's better to have the one or the other....
A MAC desktop will give you the option to place a PCI capture in it in some "cases".... the MAC laptops have different Thunderbold version interfaces 2,3, and USB-C which don't mix with each other.

Last edited by Eric-Jan; 10-11-2020 at 02:33 PM.
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  #4  
10-11-2020, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric-Jan View Post
Frames dropped over a Firewire transfer ?
Firewire has nothing to do with it. It's just a communication port, like USB, not some special bulletproof transfer method.

ADVC cards can, and do, drop frames like any other capture card. Because it is just another capture card. And when fed untimed (ie lack of TBC) input, it chokes, it drop frames.

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  #5  
10-11-2020, 02:47 PM
Eric-Jan Eric-Jan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
Firewire has nothing to do with it. It's just a communication port, like USB, not some special bulletproof transfer method.

ADVC cards can, and do, drop frames like any other capture card. Because it is just another capture card. And when fed untimed (ie lack of TBC) input, it chokes, it drop frames.
Must be a really bad signal then, i never noticed any out of sync issues, (i used my ADVC100 without any TBC) maybe there are some wrong settings of the dip switches on the bottom of the ADVC110 device of the OP ?
The ADVC110 needs bus power is see now... or a separate power adapter, when no bus power is available, otherwise it should be no problem to "capture" video with it, the JVC HR-S7800U has even build in TBC of some sort ? it has a lot of picture adjustment options... maybe there's some improvement to gain there... trying different options..
Tapes with slow recording speed, will always be a problem...

Last edited by Eric-Jan; 10-11-2020 at 03:03 PM.
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  #6  
10-11-2020, 03:28 PM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
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The Canopus and Edirol firewire capture devices are built in frame synchronizers, If you choose lock audio function it's impossible to loose audio sync. However they are still DV capture devices and have their drawbacks, on top of that DV is ancient now and most likely the capture will end up having another conversion to H.264, So may as well capture lossless and encode to anything the current playback hardware requires.
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  #7  
10-11-2020, 03:41 PM
Eric-Jan Eric-Jan is offline
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Yes, i did set the audio-lock in those days, but never experienced the problems the OP mentioned,
I did used window$ at that time, only other trapdoor was type 1 or 2 audio i remember.
and having very large files..... i'm happy now with my Intensity Shuttle using ProRes422LT
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  #8  
10-11-2020, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by latreche34 View Post
The Canopus and Edirol firewire capture devices are built in frame synchronizers,
I'm not aware of any frame sync in the Canopus. It's just a barebones capture card, like any other.

Quote:
If you choose lock audio function it's impossible to loose audio sync.
This is NOT correct.

This is not what "audio lock" does. It does not refer to audio+video sync. Nor is it created for any analog sources. This is pure marketing nonsense from Canopus. In addition, "audio lock" is a feature specifically reserved for pro DV25, not consumer DV25 (of which the Canopus uses). The "audio lock" feature is only for timecodes.

This myth has been repeated for 20+ years now, and I have to correct it constantly.

You've fallen for Canopus marketing. Don't feel bad, we all have, at some point.

BTW, that Canopus is long gone now, and "Canopus" is just a brand owned by another company (Grass Valley). Yet the BS of yesterday simply will not fade into the scrap heap of misinformation as it should, and gets repeated far too often, decades later.

Quote:
DV is ancient now
Yep. The best video technology of the Pentium II/III era (late 90s), before lossless existed.

Quote:
and most likely the capture will end up having another conversion .... So may as well capture lossless and encode to anything the current playback hardware requires.
Yep.

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