Video8 transfer to digital, how to fix interlace lines?

[NBD925]

I have a bunch of Video 8 tapes and a few hi8 that I would like to transfer to digital. Most of these tapes were recorded on a Canon E80 video recorder. Probably had mono sound and is the lesser 8mm quality.

I have transferred one video and had questions about the quality. I’m noticing lines on any objects that are moving or when the camera pans and moves to another subject in the film. They are perfect horizontal lines like the description of lacing used in this video format. Any idea how to correct this. I was hoping the TRV-615 onboard TBC would fix this. I can provide a sample I just need a little help in getting that on here for viewing uncompressed.

My second question: what is the next step in conversion? Now that I have this 70 gig file in Lossless form what would be the next best step to retain quality? Convert in some form to fit on Hard media like USB or convert to a DVD

My equipment / Work Flow:

Cam Corder: Sony TRV-615 with TBC on and DNR turned off.
RCA red and white connected for audio
S-video connected for video
Capture: August VGB100
Program: Virtual Dub 2
Codec: Lagarith Lossless Codec

[lordsmurf]

Interlacing isn't a problem that you "correct". It's a trait of analog videotapes. It's supposed to be there, and is the only way to accurately retain the quality of the recording. If viewing captures on a TV, it will look fine, TVs expect interlace.

Computers are progressive displays, not interlace, so you see the lines. If computer viewing is required, or to upload to a site like Youtube, you deinterlace a copy, and encode to the H264 format. You don't delete the source, as it's better than the copy. Deinterlace always loses quality -- and LOTS of quality if not using the QTGMC method (using Hybrid or Avisynth).

16tb HDD are cheap now, and you can retain an entire collection of lossless files on a drive (and make a backup to another 16tb drive). I actually prefer to save some space, and after editing/restoration, save my interlaced archives as 720x480 MPEG-2 4:2:2 4x3 interlaced. And then do a deinterlaced 640x480 H264 1x1 aspect for LAN viewing or online streaming. My stuff is on 5tb Seagate portables, archived to 16tb SATA that's plugged in only when backups are run.

[NBD925]

Thanks Lord Smurf for the quick reply. Interlacing was the best way I had, to describe the issue. I didn't realize digital viewing from a computer source would induce this visual problem. That is exactly what I was doing. I hooked my laptop to a TV via HDMI and looked at the final product on a TV. The larger picture really made the apparent problem stand out. After posting and closer inspection, I could see the lines on the laptops small screen too.

Thanks for the final work flow information. I will dig into that and check it out. Its like a foreign language but I will take each term and look into it.

What is the best program product to use for cutting into chapters and small edits? or is that part of the Hybrid or Avisynth method? I haven't had time to look those terms or methods up yet as of this writing.

[lordsmurf]

These days, assuming H264, the MKV container is where chapters are added. Use MKVToolnix for it, you manually add chapters at timecodes HH:MM:SS. Under the hood, outside the GUI, chapters are just XML data.

- That camera is fine, due to line TBC
- Lack of frame TBC may be an issue, Hi8/V8 loves to drop frames (line TBC doesn't address drops/skew, frame TBC does)
- August VGB100 is an Easycap or "grabber" rebadge -- not great, lost quality, blown highlights, bad contrast, etc
- VirtualDub better than VirtualDub2 for capture, but can be fine
- Lagarith has CPU overhead, can induce dropped frames, so Huffyuv safer
- s-video, stereo = good

[NBD925]

I purchased that Sony TRV-615 for the line TBC. It seems like a nice camera.

- I guess, I missed the boat on the frame TBC. I did see that in a few work flow charts. Any recommendations for a frame TBC? I guess the ones I had seen were about $1000 old studio rack models.

- August VGB100 I took a stab at. Can you recommend a modern capture device that will really work well. I struggled in that department looking at reviews on the internet.

- I was using VirtualDub but it was buggy and I kept loosing the onscreen capture preview. I went to VirtualDub2 and everything seemed to work great. I don’t know that I have a way to see dropped frames. Although I vaguely remember seeing that statistic in possible the virtualdub program.

-I’ll look into the Huffyuv

I will also check out that reading assignment. Thank you for all the info!

[cbehr91]

There's is an AVToolbox AVT-8120 for sale right now in the marketplace that's a good frame TBC. I have one. However, it's not perfect because it's composite-only. But a recommended frame TBC with S-Video from a reputable source would be twice the cost right now (or more). I'm ready for the disagreement, but unless the camera used to record your tapes had an excellent lens-sensor combo, the difference between composite and S-Video is negligible even for Hi8.

Here is a thread about the best capture devices that are and aren't an ATI All in Wonder. Some folks on here use analog to SDI devices and capture that way, which I have no experience with.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbehr91

because it's composite-only.
I'm ready for the disagreement, but unless the camera used to record your tapes had an excellent lens-sensor combo, the difference between composite and S-Video is negligible even for Hi8.

Composite gets a bad reputation due to bad devices. Lots of composite is blurry, smeary, excessive dot crawl, etc -- but it has almost nothing to do with composite, and almost everything to do with the device. The exact composite TBC you reference (which behaves very much like a green AVT-8710 composite output) has a really clean composite signal, with no excessive non-inherent issues.

Yes, composite is inferior to s-video, this cannot be disputed. But (to return to my favorite food analogy), this is the difference between spam and steak. Both are edible. It's not a dog turd vs. food (which is what happens when you get a bad TBC, s-video or not.)

Quote:

Some folks on here use analog to SDI devices and capture that way, which I have no experience with.

Those are known as "closed loop" workflows, intended for very specific non-VHS applications. Yes, VHS can be attempted, but it's very source specific, not ideal, not suggested.

[NBD925]

Ok I just found the (Hauppauge 610 USB-Live 2 Analog Video Digitizer and Video Capture Device) on Amazon. What can I expect to see in quality difference between this and the August VGB100?

I got this capture card off of the recommended list but it was from 2011 or so. Does it’s quality still hold true compared to other devices used via USB 2.0 and newer?

My work flow using this new USB Capture device:

Sony TRV615 with TBC on and DNR off
Audio cable RCA (White and Red)
Video S-video Cable
Hauppauge 610 USB
VirtualDub2
Huffyuv Codec for (Lossless Capture)

[lordsmurf]

The 610 advice is not current, no longer suggested.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NBD925

old studio rack models.

Yes, avoid those, not intended for consumer formats like VHS and Hi8/Video8.

Quote:

I struggled in that department looking at reviews on the internet.

Always remember that online reviews reflect the knowledge (or more often, lack thereof), or preferences (including dumb ones), of the user leaving the review. It's usually not an objective review about the item itself. Terrible devices get glowing reviews, and outstanding devices get horrible reviews. Too much PEBKAC, user error, ID10T errors. So never trust Joe Sixpack/Numbnuts/Anonymous, but instead vet reviews, only rely on those that come from reliable people who have verified experience.

Capture cards heavily depend on OS, with Win10 being problematic, and the latest macOS 10.15 and 11 being unusable. So ... what OS? Are you willing to create a dedicated capture system? (Ideal.)