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  #21  
01-26-2021, 02:08 PM
bookemdano bookemdano is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
ES15 has lag, but ES10 does not -- at least mine doesn't, and I got it new back in 04/05 when ES10 came out. I'm not aware of any variations of the model.
I wondered if any of the settings could affect whether there is any lag--such as NR which I believe is always on by default but can be turned off via the remote.

Also, from his spelling I would guess he's in PAL land--not sure if the PAL models could be different than the NTSC ones in the lag department.

But yeah, gaming is so sensitive to latency that I wonder if he won't find anything "better" than an ES10 in that regard. Certainly it sounds like it's not worth it for him to try an ES15.
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  #22  
01-26-2021, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bookemdano View Post
NR which I believe is always on by default but can be turned off via the remote.
This has always been misleading. NR is always on.

What the remote does is this:
"off" = less
"on" = more

I don't care what the manual or marketing materials show, it's extremely obvious. It's not mere MPEG compression, as had been suggested by some many years ago (folks who blindly insisted that "off means off", and acted as if Panasonic was an infallible deity). There were a lot of "Panny" fanboys in the 2000s. All of them have thankfully disappeared. Lots of myth and misinformation from that gaggle of goons. "houstonguy" was the worst of them, an avsforum troll, banned from VH and others.

Quote:
Also, from his spelling I would guess he's in PAL land--not sure if the PAL models could be different than the NTSC ones in the lag department.
Ah! Perhaps. The NTSC ES10 is not the PAL ES10. I do have both, and I believe the PAL has a slight lag (but still not as long as the NTSC ES15).

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  #23  
01-26-2021, 02:25 PM
traal traal is offline
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Do you know how a VCR shows a blue screen when there's no signal? I wonder if that's enough to keep an LCD screen happy.
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  #24  
01-26-2021, 02:26 PM
bookemdano bookemdano is offline
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Originally Posted by traal View Post
Do you know how a VCR shows a blue screen when there's no signal? I wonder if that's enough to keep an LCD screen happy.
Certainly worth a try--and certainly cheaper than a TBC. Good idea!
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  #25  
01-26-2021, 03:28 PM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
Genlock is two sync two sources together. That's not this.
It does work on one source only, it's just was designed for a different purpose which is syncing two cameras, The only difference from TBC is it doesn't store frames so it has zero lag, but can be problematic just like a TBC with garbled sources that suffer signal loss.
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  #26  
01-27-2021, 05:51 AM
SyncHole SyncHole is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by latreche34 View Post
It does work on one source only, it's just was designed for a different purpose which is syncing two cameras, The only difference from TBC is it doesn't store frames so it has zero lag, but can be problematic just like a TBC with garbled sources that suffer signal loss.
Thank you for the suggestion Latreche34, I have read about GenLock and have been wondering if it could help and would love to know more please

You had me at 'zero lag'
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  #27  
01-27-2021, 06:02 AM
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To skip ahead a few steps, I foresee another potential roadblock. Not all TBCs/genlocks/etc are created equal. The path you're going down has some pitfalls. So how accepting are you of signal glitches? For example, repeated or ghosted frames. For video conversion, this is unacceptable. But for this unusual purpose, what is your tolerance? Are you hoping for error-free video? The main issue here is what items can be used, and costs.

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  #28  
01-27-2021, 06:53 AM
SyncHole SyncHole is offline
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That is a very good point, thank you. I am very tolerant of such glitches and don't expect perfection.
I would much prefer a blank black/blue frame to a repeated frame, however if it is just one or two repeated frames occasionally it is certainly much more tolerable than 1-2 seconds of black screen I get now
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  #29  
01-27-2021, 01:43 PM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
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Sync generator doesn't work alone, It needs the receiving end to be able to mix the VBI and video signal together for a new stable signal that's why Lordsmurf said it's for two sources, I know neither your TV nor your video wireless receiver has a sync input, it pretty much works with broadcast decks and receivers and mixing consoles that have such input, The reason I brought it up is because someone has mentioned it. This however might work for you, it is like an ES10 but with more advanced controls and options.
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  #30  
01-27-2021, 01:51 PM
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$85 taxed/shipped is a bit much for a total gamble of an item that may not work. And isn't that item something that was made for amusement parks, essentially a multi video splitter?

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  #31  
01-27-2021, 03:53 PM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
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still way cheaper than a full frame TBC, Anyway I don't know why he still wants an analog composite transmitter, a technology as old as a VCR.
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  #32  
01-28-2021, 03:44 AM
SyncHole SyncHole is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by latreche34 View Post
I don't know why he still wants an analog composite transmitter
Because it doesn't introduce lag, and more importantly, it handles weak signal much more gracefully.
I can game at the bottom of the garden with a slightly snowy image, which is nice and nostalgic, like analog TV, and doesn't affect gameplay, while a digital transmission would be ugly and pixelated and/or freeze, like the awful new digital TV, rendering most games unplayable and certainly unenjoyable.

Newer is not always better

Watch from 1:00 in this video and you will see why analog is so much preferable
(not my video)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tn_eIg39vH0


Regarding latency/lag:

The video transmission does not add any discernible latency, gaming wirelessly feels just like gaming wired.

Adding the ES10 between the video receiver and digital display solves the blackscreen issue perfectly but introduces substantial latency, in theory it could be as low as one frame, 40ms, however from over a decade's experience reducing latency to improve gameplay, it feels like much more.

Turning off NR did not make an appreciable difference, but thank you for the suggestion

Last edited by SyncHole; 01-28-2021 at 04:03 AM.
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  #33  
01-28-2021, 10:43 AM
bookemdano bookemdano is offline
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Maybe it would be more fruitful to try some different LCD TVs that perhaps wouldn't have the same blackscreen/lag issue as your current set?
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  #34  
01-28-2021, 11:50 AM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
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Quote:
while a digital transmission would be ugly and pixelated and/or freeze, like the awful new digital TV, rendering most games unplayable and certainly
Digital transmission will not be ugly and pixelated if transmitted within the residence, If you are transmitting it over 3 blocks than maybe.
If you want strong analog transmission this old good analog transmitter will solve all your problems for only $31k.
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