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04-22-2021, 01:20 PM
Delta Delta is offline
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Hello all,

I have started digitizing my Hi8 tapes after a long break using Sony DCR TRV-461E (which I recently managed to get from the UK as a replacement to my original Sony CCD TRV-95E that stopped working almost decade ago) feeding to Canopus ADVC-110 (that I got from US when my first camcorder was still working). Fortunately, the tapes that are over 20 years are in farily good shape and I have managed to digitize 10 cassettes now. I am running Win 10 with latest updates on AMD FX-6300.

I bought ADVC-110 at a time when my knowledge on pixel formats were limited. I have recently learned a lot from this forum and now realize that with YV12 DV format output by ADVC-110, I am losing 50% of chroma details even before I get the videos into my computer. I now wish to capture the tapes in lossless 4:2:2 format using VirtualDub. ADVC-110 captures full range luma and chroma, something I wish the alternate cards do as well.

I have shortlisted the below two USB capture devices, that I understand can (i) capture PAL to 720x576, (ii) capture in 4:2:2 format, (iii) have s-video as input, (iv) importantly enable lossless capture to Lagarith with VirtualDub and (v) driver availability for Win 10. I am not looking to use the capture programs packaged with these devices.
1. Dazzle DVD Recorder HD
2. Hauppauge USB-Live2

Dazzle DVD Recorder HD - site does not provide much details and does not explicitly confirm if it meets the above requirements. From the forum discussions I guess it will.

Hauppauge (610) USB-Live2 - site does explicitly confirm first 3 requirements, and I understand from the forum that many enthusiasts successfully use it with VirtualDub.

I live in India and my options are limited, besides having to pay an additional $35 towards shipping and customs. Both these devices are similarly priced and Amazon indicates it can ship both these to India in 2 to 5 weeks time. And due to the longer shipping time and customs I may have to take the risk of not having an opportunity to request return or replacement in case of a faulty product.

Could the forum please advice me on which of the above I can go with? Are there other devices that I should consider? Many thanks.

-- merged --

Further reading through the forums, I gather that Hauppauge cards have Conexant capture chips, which are not so great. Then it has to be Dazzle or something better. I am not able to gather the model no. or chip details for the currently listed Dazzle DVD Recorder HD.
Thanks
Dayal
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  #2  
04-23-2021, 04:18 PM
lollo2 lollo2 is offline
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Quote:
I gather that Hauppauge cards have Conexant capture chips, which are not so great
Some capture samples:

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/...e2#post2615447

http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vide...html#post75736

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Quote:
CX23102 is not crap in my experience/research
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  #3  
04-24-2021, 03:29 AM
Delta Delta is offline
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Quote:

Thanks lollo. I will go through these links. BTW, should I be aware of any capture cards/USBs that trim Y and UV to TV levels?

I am now thinking of creating dual boot on my PC, adding Win 7 - that I guess would enable more options and better captures. Any card that can do AVI 4:2:2 would be better than my current ADVC-110; I can stretch my budget for a good card.
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  #4  
04-24-2021, 07:41 AM
lollo2 lollo2 is offline
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Quote:
BTW, should I be aware of any capture cards/USBs that trim Y and UV to TV levels?
Most USB cards capture in the range 16-~245.

http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vide...html#post62640

You should set the proc amp of the card to do not crush blacks <16 and whites > 245

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/...k-What-s-In-It
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  #5  
04-24-2021, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lollo2 View Post
crush blacks <16 and whites > 245
Legal compliant YUV video is 16-235, not 0-255. So nothing is "crushed", which insinuates that the capture card is doing something wrong. It is not. If the source is invalid, then that's the fault of the source. Illegal values are simply ignored, and parked at the lowest limit allowed (16).

You compensate for sources flaws with proc amp. The software proc amp ("card") is using 16-235 as the basis. To correct 0-15, or 236-255, you must have hardware proc amp in the analog domain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta View Post
the UK
Canopus ADVC-110
PAL DV is 4:2:0, similar to DVD color quality. It's not bad.
NTSC 4:1:1 is terrible, 50% color loss.
Lossless 4:2:2 is better.

Quote:
(v) driver availability for Win 10.
Realize that "available" and "working" are NOT the same thing. Win10 is such a horrible capture OS, and nukes cards at updates. And I believe certain graphics cards, mostly Nvidia, make the updates worse.

Quote:
1. Dazzle
No.

Quote:
2. Hauppauge USB-Live2
I gather that Hauppauge cards have Conexant capture chips, which are not so great.
Not great, no. But that may be more true of NTSC than PAL. However, mixed reviews, from knowledgeable users. So more may be at play than just chips, or even chipset versions. It happens too often. I really hate variable cards. The VC500 both has, and doesn't have, AGC and color issues. Yippee.

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  #6  
04-24-2021, 12:46 PM
hodgey hodgey is offline
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I haven't quite managed to figure out the possible AGC issue with the conexant thingies either. I do use the Diamond VC500 version of those a fair bit and I haven't noticed anything large at least. One other issue though is that there is no way to adjust audio input level on them (on windows at least), and the default is a bit too high for some sources. A workaround is to use some external volume control, or on camcorders, the headphone output and lower the volume on it, or capture the audio via a sound card instead.

If it's possible to ship it where you are the IO Data GV USB2 may be a better option. I have yet to test one myself, but they seem to get unanimous praise around here and on videohelp, and they seem to be well made with decent components.

In case you get stuck with your current items, Sony DCR TRV-461E is capable of outputting analog tapes directly to DV/firewire rather than needing to go via the avdc.
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  #7  
04-24-2021, 02:39 PM
Delta Delta is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hodgey View Post
Sony DCR TRV-461E is capable of outputting analog tapes directly to DV/firewire rather than needing to go via the avdc.
That was my idea when I shortlisted the TRV-461E. Unfortunately, the DV out isn't working. I guess the seller may perhaps been aware of this defect and did not reveal it. Luckily, since I had the ADVC I am proceeding with the digitizing before any of the tapes or camcorder become unusable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hodgey View Post
If it's possible to ship it where you are the IO Data GV USB2 may be a better option
Unfortunately, this device cannot be delivered to my location

Quote:
Originally Posted by hodgey View Post
on camcorders, the headphone output and lower the volume on it
I am using the Sony proprietary AV jack cable for the audio while the video is from S-video port. ADVC volume capture seems a tad bit low, but it is better than hitting saturation and distortion.
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  #8  
04-24-2021, 02:53 PM
Delta Delta is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
You compensate for sources flaws with proc amp.
Thanks lordsmurf. Good to know that capture parameters for most cards can be adjusted with the proc-amp.

Quote:
PAL DV is 4:2:0, similar to DVD color quality. It's not bad.
Lossless 4:2:2 is better.
While I am looking for a good card to go lossless for the archives, I will continue to digitize with ADVC while the items are working condition. My TRV-95E suddenly went dead for apparently no reason; it was very well taken care, single user; perhaps due periods of disuse as the digital cameras became fancy. Sony expressed their inability to fix that and I couldn't find anyone who could.

Quote:
Win10 is such a horrible capture OS
I am thinking of setting up a bootable win7 partition dedicated to video capture when I get a card to do 4:2:2 lossless.

Thanks for helping me rule out Dazzle. Mixed reviews and/or inconsistent performance or chipsets is what is concerning me to decide on USB-Live 2 or VC-500.
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  #9  
04-24-2021, 04:07 PM
BarryTheCrab BarryTheCrab is offline
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At risk of attack...I just tried a Vidbox, using S-video, W10.
Full Proc amp function, including gain, and I like the capture.
Preview in Vdub works too.
I’m loving this. It has PAL support also.
No fuss, no muss.
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  #10  
04-27-2021, 10:41 AM
Delta Delta is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hodgey View Post
IO Data GV USB2 may be a better option
Found out that this made in Taiwan card ships to US from Japan and hence not eligible for onward shipping. I could order it to be delivered to my country from Amazon Japan from here. Just thought of letting know, just in case any non-resident user is interested in this card.

However, most reviews seem to be from the gamers and not much has been talked about this card by the advanced users or experts in this community.
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  #11  
04-27-2021, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hodgey View Post
but they seem to get unanimous praise around here and on videohelp
I've seen no such comments. (And I doubt any such positive reviews came from anybody qualified to make that determination.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta View Post
most reviews seem to be from the gamers
Yep. Video gamers have a low quality bar for video capture. And game capturing isn't analog tape capturing anyway.

I really don't understand the sudden hard-on for this card. It's been around for many years, and had been unremarkable for all of that time. This seems to be just more fad advice that will disappear as quickly as it came ("viral").

Review from msgohan/brad from 5+ years ago: https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/...st#post2455078

If it was good, I'd be using it ... and I'm not using it.

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  #12  
04-27-2021, 12:31 PM
Delta Delta is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryTheCrab View Post
At risk of attack...I just tried a Vidbox, using S-video, W10.
Is this what you are referring to: VIDBOX Video Conversion for PC (2020)?
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  #13  
04-28-2021, 07:44 PM
BarryTheCrab BarryTheCrab is offline
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Yes, at least in appearance.
The audio and video device is listed each as NW07.
More captures to be done, I hope I still like it a week or two from now!
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