8mm to digital capture dropped frames?

[Vania]

Hello

I have recently found my childhood home movies. I am in the process of converting them from analog to Digital. I would really like to get them digitized because they have already degraded somewhat but there is still salvageable footage on them.

My set up is.

Camera: RCA Pro808A (I think it's from 1990-1994. The footage was filmed on this device originally.)
Capture Device: Hauppauge 610 USB-Live 2 Analog Video Digitizer.
Laptop: Windows 10.
Software: Hauppauge Capture.

When the camera is hooked to the tv. The footage looks acceptable. But when I have it hooked up to the laptop, ready to capture. It looks fine in the camera view finder but in the capture software on the laptop it's unwatchable. Dropping lots of frames and just laggy over all.

Any advice would be appreciated. Thank you.

[lordsmurf]

Cameras are almost never the best players.

What you see on TV doesn't matter. TVs are forgiving to video errors, but digital capture cards require quality signals. In order to get a quality signal, it has to be filtered, using a TBC (time base corrector). At very bare minimum, you can try an ES10/15 to passthrough signal from a good VCR to the capture cards. So VCR > ES10/15 > capture card.

What you're trying right now will never work.

Win10 also tries to fight you at times, it's a terrible capture OS.

If you computer only has 1 hard drive (sharing capture drive with OS temp/swap files), and is "doing stuff" (connected to internet, background tasks), then it will drop frames.

[Vania]

Thank you for the advice. So I need a good VCR as well as a ES10/15? So my set up should look like this?

RCA Camera - VCR - ES10/15 - Laptop.

Or would it be

RCA Camera - ES10/15 - Laptop?

How likely am I to find a good VCR and a ES10/15 at a local resell it shop? Also I have another laptop that runs windows 7. If that would be a tad better.

[lordsmurf]

No camera.
VCR > ES10/15 > capture card (using computer)

Near-zero chance at finding these things local, unless you live in a large city, and are willing drive and hunt. Even then, you may just find abused trash, no way to test it. ES10/15 units are on eBay, but good VCRs can be trickier. Lots of junk sold online and offline, abused VCRs about to fail. You want to stick to certain models, like JVC non-TBC units at worst. But don't be cheap about it, otherwise it'll cost you more in the long-run. Buy cheap, buy twice.

[dpalomaki]

Finding a VCR that can play 8mm video tape will be difficult, and working models tend to be expensive. They were mostly from Sony, and I believe many may suffer from aging capacitors at this point.

Your best bet might be to find a Digital8 camcorder that can play 8mm and Hi8 as well. Some include internal line TBC capability as well as some noise reduction capability. A Sony Video Walkman such as a GV-D200 is an option but they tend to be pricey as well.

Home video, especially video shot with moderate to low light levels usually contains noise and that presents problems if capturing to a lossy compressed format such as DV, mpeg, or MP4. It will generally look terrible on a high resolution display such as a modern PC. There are ways around this issue that require a quality player, lossless capture, and appropriate noise reduction processing.

Dropped frames can be a result of insufficient horsepower on PC and its drives (not uncommon with a laptop), or a problem with the playback system resulting on a poor video signal, or even AV software.

[Vania]

I'll be ordering a Panasonic DMR-ES15 today. Getting a VCR that plays 8mm most likely won't happen. Since starting this project I've been blown away by the price of older technology!

I changed my graphics card settings to performance over quality and I disconnected from the internet and disabled antivirus. In hopes of fixing dropped frames. I also downloaded OBS Broadcaster software to use instead of the software that came with my capture device. It seemed to run a lot smoother. But still unwatchable. Dropped frames is an understatement. It's more like freezing/getting a new picture every 5-10 seconds. As when i look through the viewfinder on the camera its smooth as butter. At least in comparison.

I guess I'll wait for the ES/15 to arrive then see where that gets me. I may have to resort to just hooking my camera up to the TV. Then recording my TV screen with my DSLR camera, lol. Because, like I mentioned before the TV plays back an acceptable image. And my main concern is it looking like an actual video instead of a picture slide show. Which the tv provides for some reason.

Thank you for all of the great advice. If you think of anything else please get back with me. I thought this would be a quick and easy project before I dove in, lol.

[lordsmurf]

Do not use OBS. It's streaming screen recording software, not analog capture software. You will add problems.

Use VirtualDub. Not VirtualDub2, but VirtualDub.

Hauppauge software has always been blah, mostly decent for MPEG capturing on the older MPEG cards.

Nvidia cards can cause problems in Win10, so be sure to set it to use the onboard/on-chip graphics for VirtualDub.

The ES10/15 has some drawbacks (posterization, overly aggressive always-on NR, luma finagling), and there will be a fail rate (some tapes won't work), but it's a minimalist/poor-man's TBC, what I refer to as part of a TBC(ish) setup. It's the bare minimum of acceptability.

You must have the ES10/15 remote.

[dpalomaki]

BTW:

What is your laptop - make, model and configuration (e.g., processor, drives, beyond Win 10)?

How many 8mm videos do you have? If a relatively small number it might be overall lower cost to have the digitizing done else where for you. (Just need to be careful where you have it done.)

If filming off the TV screen is your standard for a minimally usable product you may find recording to DVD in the ES15 meets your immediate needs. You can rip the DVD to create MP4s and other formats. (That will not be best product or facilitate restoration and editing but it is an approach.

[Vania]

Yes. The ES/15 does come with the remote. I ditched OBS and downloaded VirtualDub.

My specs are:

Dell XPS 15 9550
Processor: Intel Core I7 2.6 GHZ
Memory: 16384 MB RAM

Yeah my biggest concern is the dropped frames over the quality currently. Virtual dub says it fluctuates all over usually from 8-18 frames. occasionally hitting 25 and sometimes as low as 5.

[Vania]

UPDATE:

Good news. I found some VHS tapes as I was going through some more stuff. It appears someone in my family at sometime took all the footage from the 8mm tapes and had them recorded onto VHS tapes. The quality of the footage is near perfect. I'm currently capturing the footage onto my laptop with no issues using VirtualDub. I guess the frame dropping issue was the 8mm tapes and or the camcorder. (I didn't want to believe it because i thought it was all the memories i had left.)

I'm really happy and appreciative of all of your help. Thank you.

Im still buying the ES/15 to see if I can squeeze out even slightly better footage. I'm capturing right now to AVI. Its a pretty big file. Is that what I should do. And then compress it to a different format later on?

[lollo2]

With Hauppauge USB-Live 2, VirtualDub and Windows 10 check the audio/video synch at the end of the file

[dpalomaki]

FWIW: In general there is significant quality loss in making a plain VHS copy from a Video8 or VHS tape. So barring significant problems with the original Video8 tapes and the player you are using they should give better results than the VHS copies if you have reasonable equipment.

Good luck with your project.

[BW37]

@Vania:

Assuming your original 8mm tapes are still in decent shape, as dpalomaki has stated, you will get your best results by using them as your source. What you really need is a better player for them.

The most commonly recommended players for analog 8mm (Video8 and Hi8) are Sony D8 or later Hi8 camcorders. These have the desired line TBC, NR and s-video output that provide the best output quality for digitizing. They are analogous to the recommended SVHS players for digitizing VHS tapes.

Take a look at these threads about the recommended player options for 8mm and VHS tapes.

If you find a Hi8 or D8 camcorder that looks interesting, be sure to checkout the manual (Sony still has most available online) to be sure it has the features you need.

BW

[Hushpower]

Quote:

I'm capturing right now to AVI. Its a pretty big file. Is that what I should do. And then compress it to a different format later on?

Yes, however you can reduce the file size by setting the Virtual Dub Video capture compression to a lossless format as opposed to uncompressed.

First, install the Lagarith codec from here. Choose the 1327 EXE file.

Then, put Virtual Dub into Capture mode, then on the Video menu>Compression>choose Lagarith Lossless.

Lagarith captures are about 30gb per hour, whereas uncompressed (at the top of the codec list) is about 90gb.

Then, you can edit your captures and when you're set, save them into MP4 or to DVD. Retain your original, untouched captures JIC!

[Hushpower]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BW37

are Sony D8 or later Hi8 camcorders. These have the desired line TBC, NR and s-video output that provide the best output quality for digitizing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BW37

If you find a Hi8 or D8 camcorder that looks interesting, be sure to checkout the manual (Sony still has most available online) to be sure it has the features you need.

Yes, my TRV-110E does not have a TBC or NR as menu functions.