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06-26-2021, 11:38 PM
thestarswitcher thestarswitcher is offline
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Hi everyone,

I'm working on a restoration project for an old series released on aging PAL VHS tapes. The captures I have are looking superb, and the restoration is looking outstanding so far for it's desired output (1080p25). I must ask though- there's *some* "grill pattern" artifacts, which I can only assume is from the capture card. (See my previous concern of this issue here: (http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vide...lines-pal.html)

Equipment:
VCR: JVC HR-S9600EU
TBC: Datavideo TBC-1000
OS: Windows 10 (it's been working good though, I swear! )
Capture Device: Dazzle DVC100
Capture Software: VirtualDub2 + Huffyuv v2.1.1 CCESP Patch v0.2.5

What I want to ask, what is the absolute best top of the line capture card that is best supported for a PAL source? I feel I can do better than Dazzle- does anyone have any comparisons? NTSC compatibility would be alright too, but it's not much of a concern; the vertical lines don't appear on NTSC captures. Must be a flaw with the Dazzle.


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  #2  
06-27-2021, 08:26 AM
Bogilein Bogilein is offline
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This question is asked 2 or 3 times every week.
The best answer would be to use the search function.

There is no such thing as the perfect best capture card. Some are recommended more than others, but you have to find out for yourself if they fit your hardware. Depends on your VCR, your TBC, the quality of your videotapes and your operating system.

The card should be able to record uncompressed in YUV colour space. Cards that compress to DV, such as the popular Canopus ADVC 100/110, should be avoided.

Lord Smurf swears by the ATI All-In-Wonder graphics cards (7200,9000,9200,9600...) or the ATI USB cards (ATI 600 USB, ATI USB 2.0 and possibly identical ones from Tevion, Hauppaquge).

Latreche34 swears by the SDI capture path with a Brighteye 75 TBC and a Blackmagic card or uses a Pinnacle USB 500.

The Pinnacle cards 500,510,700,710 are also of the better variety.

I use a Canopus/Edius NX, Pinnacle 500, HDMI Capture with DVD Recorder And Blackmagic Shuttle and a few others.

Since you already have 2 of the 3 devices recommended by Lord, it would make sense to use an ATI AIW. You just have to build a PC with an AGP slot and Windows XP.
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  #3  
06-27-2021, 09:48 AM
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The Dazzle is on the lower end of cards, various issues.

Certain Pinnacle models, and certain versions of those Pinnacle models (something you see only after opening the card), is one of the best option for PAL and Win10. I don't suggest the 500/700, and the 510 is not great for PAL, while the 710 could be. Not automatic, as Pinnacle has the same bad habit as Hauppauge (and others), when it comes to recycling card model numbers when the innards are different (production changes, or even entirely different insides).

It will be almost impossible to beat the quality of an AIW, but XP required, on a dedicated offline capture system, Also, I'm not a fan of just any random Windows XP build, as the hardware is too sluggish for the 2020s. If AGP, it needs to be an Asrock board with SATA and dual-core Intel CPU. There''s also the rarer PCI AIW and AIW USB, which allows for far more modern motherboards from the mid 2010s. But not just any random PCI, as most do not work with XP (too new of an OS!), and not even any random AGP (some have known noise patterning, poor shielding, mostly certain 9600 and 9800 versions). You also have to be careful to get complete AIW, as missing wires make the card entirely useless.

Do not get HD cards like Blackmagic or Magewell for videotape, there are severe issues, even with TBCs in use. Use HD for HD, not SD. It was a poor afterthought feature that simply does not work well, or at all.

What are you using to upscale? Avisynth? (If so, what script?)

VLC blurs and processes videos. For proper screen shots, load into VirtualDub, and Video > Copy source frame to clipboard. Paste into Photoshop or whatever, save (for web) high/max quality JPEG. Don't bother with PNG, those are still converting to JPEG by the forum software (put PNG inside zip/rar/7z, when truly needed, which isn't often).

Anything in a workflow can cause lines, from VCR to TBC to capture card. It requires process of elimination to isolate the case.

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  #4  
06-27-2021, 11:06 AM
thestarswitcher thestarswitcher is offline
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Hi LordSmurf!

Thanks for the reply! I didn't know VLC degraded the quality. Do you have a recommendation for an accurate video viewer that isn't Windows Media Player? I tried MPC but it was a bit clunky and overloaded for my liking.

I'm documenting the progress of the scaling techniques at this link here, which contains the scripts I'm using:
https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/tu...a-wip/id/82096

Also, could you confirm if my HuffyUV output settings are fine? I only just noticed this now:
https://imgur.com/obh8c66

Here's a 1 minute sample from a capture:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1M9_...ew?usp=sharing

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
The Dazzle is on the lower end of cards, various issues.
Anything in a workflow can cause lines, from VCR to TBC to capture card. It requires process of elimination to isolate the case.
Also worth mentioning, I was complaining about the AVT-8710 introducing the vertical lines, but after I eliminated that, it was diminished, but you could still barely see them without any TBC in the chain. It appears, the AVT amplified the bug, opposed to introducing it. So now it's between the capture card and the VCR, which I really hope isn't the VCR- it's a quality unit. That being said, I know some people with PAL S-VHS decks and using the Dazzle, and they've also reported the vertical line problem too.. fingers crossed for the definite solution!

Thank you so much again, really appreciate it!
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  #5  
06-27-2021, 01:24 PM
Bogilein Bogilein is offline
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As a PAL user I can only say that the Edius/Canopus NX are equal if not better than the ATI cards with PAL content.

I also own the ATI AIW 7200, 9000, 9600 and also the ATI USB 600.

The Lord should perhaps also follow one of his pieces of advice for most beginners.

Buy it, use,test it and sell it again and don't make comments about hardware he hasn't tested or used.
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  #6  
06-27-2021, 01:37 PM
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The Canopus NX requires Edius, and NLE capturing is often a quagmire.

Furthermore, the capture cards are generally $500+, which is ridiculous across the 2000s, 2010s, and 2020s. That was the 90s pricing point for capture cards from Matrox and Canopus, because nothing else really existed. ATI changed that, at an MSRP of $300. Unlike TBCs and VCRs, the resale value is not here on this card. Even now, most other HD cards are sub-$300, though useful only for HD (terrible SD).

And odds are you will NOT get the card + Edius together, driving up acquisition costs even further.

Perhaps at a $200 ceiling, but not 2x-3x that. Nope.

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  #7  
06-27-2021, 01:47 PM
thestarswitcher thestarswitcher is offline
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If it helps with picking, cost would be an afterthought- my primary concern is actually getting captures with all the detail contained within the picture. Some tapes we're borrowing to help with the project can't stay with us for a certain period of time, so it's very much a "get it done once and right" type of event in some circumstances.

What are your thoughts on what I should aim for, given the high technical expectation?
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