#1  
10-09-2021, 08:35 PM
misery misery is offline
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I read somewhere on here to "never capture on external drives".

So If I have VHS > TBC > USB Capture Device connected to a USB 3 Port and a 1TB SSD Internal and 10TB External HD (USB 3), does this mean I can't make the videos on the External, it has to be on the SSD? And then afterwards you cut the video to the External? If so, why is this?
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  #2  
10-09-2021, 08:54 PM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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No.

External drives do not have the sustained connection required. (Firewire did, but USB does not.)

HDD vs. SSD does not matter, USB is the limiter.

Attempting to use USB will drop frames, and have other issues.

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  #3  
10-10-2021, 04:51 AM
misery misery is offline
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When you say USB is the limiter, do you mean it's the limiter for the External, or also the capture device?

For the external, can you use a USB to eSATA adapter to fix the issue?
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  #4  
10-10-2021, 05:37 AM
lollo2 lollo2 is offline
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USB is busy to get data from the capture card. If you ask him to also send data to the external disk, whatever interface you use, you may have problems.
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  #5  
10-11-2021, 03:40 AM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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The data from the capture card isn't the same as writing the files of data. USB is fine for the capture card, but not for the external write (HDD, SSD).

USB still goes over the CPU. It's not direct connected like a SATA or PCIe device, bypassing CPU. Very often, it makes no difference. But video isn't one of those times.

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  #6  
10-11-2021, 09:11 AM
RobustReviews RobustReviews is offline
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We have done it, with total success so might be a "suck it and see" sort of thing but it's certainly not an optimal way of doing it. We've also tried it with zero success when we've had drives fail on machines in use - I can say that we have done it with zero dropped frames and no issues though on videos of about 90 minutes in length.

I'm thinking back to "that afternoon" which is something of a legend in our towers were we had just about all hardware fail at once.

We did do it with the editing workstations with serious horsepower though (water cooled Thread Rippers, 128GB of RAM, M2 cache drive etc), I don't think I'd try it on our more modest capture machines.

We do capture almost exclusively to internal SSD or file-server without issues though, despite some dire warnings to the contrary, it's not an issue we have with even our more modest machines.
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  #7  
10-16-2021, 08:13 AM
ffmpeguserss ffmpeguserss is offline
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Second that, trying it out is one sure way to find out.

Another way could be mapping a drive from a network share with gigabit ethernet; I haven't tried it myself, but the thoroughputs I'm seeing on gigabit ethernet seem similar to a local SATA drive at least with my setup. Might have to tinker with the network settings to get better latency. Then again I haven't tried it.
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  #8  
11-10-2022, 05:41 AM
DEAGS1978 DEAGS1978 is offline
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Yes. Lordsmurf is wrong. I use SanDisk Extreme Pro, but haven't had any issues in fact the only change is the squiggly bar at the bottom is organized differently. I'm not sure if the change in the squiggly bar is better but there is no noticeable difference between USB external and Sata internal. I also use an SSD OS drive to SSD capture and the results are the same. I found CPU to work better because of this too.
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  #9  
11-10-2022, 03:11 PM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DEAGS1978 View Post
Yes. Lordsmurf is wrong. I use SanDisk Extreme Pro, but haven't had any issues in fact the only change is the squiggly bar at the bottom is organized differently. I'm not sure if the change in the squiggly bar is better but there is no noticeable difference between USB external and Sata internal. I also use an SSD OS drive to SSD capture and the results are the same. I found CPU to work better because of this too.
I'm not wrong.

As I always stated, general rules exist for a reason: they're generally accurate/true/factual.
All rules have exceptions, but exceptions do not overrule the rule.

Anecdotal "it worked for me" is not acceptable, especially with something complex like capturing, where issues can be hidden until later. It needs further analysis to claim "it worked for me".

A "squiggly bar" is some sort of capture card issue, nothing to do with external USB drive. And that odd issue makes "it worked for me" dubious, likely inaccurate. You must troubleshoot carefully, before making claims. It misleads newbies into using wrong/bad/problem methods.

Science matters, ie the scientific method (good troubleshooting).

To be more specific, not all USB ports are equal, nor are enclosures (including OEM). Some are surely going to be fine, but the larger plurality of drives is not at all. Same for drivers, bridge, chipset, etc. It's not a commodity where "it's all the same". It's not the same. Variations exist, mostly bad.

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  #10  
11-10-2022, 04:00 PM
themaster1 themaster1 is offline
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It worked for me aswell, 2 days ago. Using a usb docking station connected to usb 3 ( not sure here, i should check). I used my hdmi card in standard def 480i. No dropped frames and smooth preview while capturing indeed (i can hear Vdub lovers screaming Hehe).
The hdd is optimized for video aswell (high block size value...less frag).I don't recommend usb though.One of the reasons is that it can easily be disconnected (not recognized by windows)... happened to me before.
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  #11  
11-10-2022, 08:27 PM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
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Depends on the USB architecture inside the motherboard, motherboards are designed to handle multiple devices through the use of multiport hubs and daisy-chaining hubs, Newer motherboards have newer versions of USB ports with higher dat rates, CPU speed is blazing fast nowadays, So really depends on the system at hand, no one here is wrong or right.

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  #12  
11-11-2022, 04:10 AM
dpalomaki dpalomaki is offline
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One issue being USB is a potentially shared port so success or not can also depend on what else placing demands on the USB controller to which the drive is connected, how well writes are cached in the PC, raw speed of the drive, how fragmented the drive is, and how the OS assigns priority to various running takes. Bottom line is that it might work for you, but it is not an assured solution for all folks. And it might work one day and not the next due to subtle changes in the overall system configuration (e.g., hardware and software) at the time.

Reminds me of the earlier days of NLE 20+ years ago where background programs running on a PC could cause a capture to fail, capturing the the system drive could fail, or when rendering an edit would be slower if the video source and d estination drives were the same.

Programs such as BMD's Blackmagic Disk Speed Test can be helpful in assessing whether or not your disc has sufficient speed for video capture provided you understand what the results mean. However, keep in mind that capture environments may be different than benchmark running environments.

Last edited by dpalomaki; 11-11-2022 at 04:23 AM.
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  #13  
11-11-2022, 05:10 AM
DEAGS1978 DEAGS1978 is offline
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I hate to double down on you lordsmurf but I'm using a 4core Dual Sata 2 as suggested by you. Works best with an internal SSD by either Kingston a400 or Sandisk Nand 3D (I haven't tried 850 EVO yet) and an external SSD USB for capture. In my case I use SanDisk 1TB Extreme PRO Portable SSD - Up to 2000MB/s

I have used also as you suggested Sata Internal drives with about the same results but they can't be moved easliy from PC to PC either. So, for $100 dollar maybe try the newer technology.
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  #14  
11-11-2022, 07:52 AM
dpalomaki dpalomaki is offline
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Quote:
...Sata Internal drives with about the same results but they can't be moved easliy from PC to PC...
FWIW, 3.5" Hard Drive Cages are available that fit in a half height floppy disc/optical drive slot can be used to quickly swap in/out SATA drives and they support provide SATA I/II/III speed. The main issue these days is having a case with external slots. The link below is an example of the type I have used in my full tower machines.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...yABEgI8qPD_BwE
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  #15  
11-11-2022, 01:06 PM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
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One thing important to not when using external storage is that if you use HDD's with spinning discs that are USB powered try to power them up with an external power source, The initial spinning torque could put a load on your USB port when the drive is waking up. This should not be an issue with solid state storage.

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  #16  
11-11-2022, 01:12 PM
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