Missing something in my capture workflow?

[Denicio]

Hey Y'all,

Been doing some transfers lately and something got me to thinking about my work flow and if there is something i am missing.

Here is my current set up:

VHS out (not using Svideo, at the moment as my player with Svideo died). Sending that INTO the Datavideo TBC-1000. Out of the TBC-1000 into the Pinnacle 510 analog inputs. From there, it goes to the computer via USB as its a USB capture device. Using a USB port on the back that connects directly to the MB. Thats the Hardware set up.

When i fire up my Win7 machine i launch Crossbar Thing. I set the input in Crossbar and then open Virtualdub. Inside VD i choose Lagraith compression and do the Transfer. No more, no less. Thats the entire workflow. This is supposed to give me a lossless compression transfer and fix any possible TBC.

I cant help but wonder if there is something i am missing on the computer side. SHOULD i be using any Pinnacle software for my 510? or is that even necessary. Part of my nerd-brain wonders why this workflow excludes any pinnacle software. I 'think' this was the workflow suggested here on this forum but i cant recall.

Just got to wondering if i have mistakenly left out an important step?
Thanks in advance for any answers on this.

D

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denicio

VHS out (not using Svideo, at the moment as my player with Svideo died). Sending that INTO the Datavideo TBC-1000. Out of the TBC-1000 into the Pinnacle 510 analog inputs. From there, it goes to the computer via USB as its a USB capture device. Using a USB port on the back that connects directly to the MB. Thats the Hardware set up.

Seems fine.

Quote:

When i fire up my Win7 machine i launch Crossbar Thing. I set the input in Crossbar and then open Virtualdub. Inside VD i choose Lagraith compression and do the Transfer. No more, no less. Thats the entire workflow. This is supposed to give me a lossless compression transfer and fix any possible TBC.
I cant help but wonder if there is something i am missing on the computer side.

Looks fine.
Lagarith can be a bad capture codec, overhead, indues dropped frames. Can, not will. Often can. In those cases, use Huffyuv. But Huffyuv just better in general.

Quote:

SHOULD i be using any Pinnacle software for my 510? or is that even necessary.
Part of my nerd-brain wonders why this workflow excludes any pinnacle software.

No. Pinnacle Studio is junkware, limiting, bugs, problems.

Quote:

Just got to wondering if i have mistakenly left out an important step?
Thanks in advance for any answers on this.

Nope. Looks good from here.

The only concern I have is "which" VCR. If not S-VHS with line TBC, you're capturing wiggle video. From slight to harsh. You need ES10/15 in these, if just a plain VCR. And it clearly is, since just composite.

[Denicio]

All Hail Lord Smurf,

Thanks my friend. I know that replies from you are a labor of love and a lot of effort on your part. I immensely appreciate your time and reply here.

The machine i had that outputted Svideo ate a tape. Not sure what to do with that machine. I have purchased (off etsy) a refurbished Toshiba VCR / DVD recorder that has both Svideo In & Out (DVR 620). Waiting for UPS to deliver it next week. Probably should stop any transfers till i get it.

I once tried the Huff compression and could never get it to work. Lagraith is the only one i could get to work that was not VideoDub native.

I do freely admit that in my Way Back machine the VHS transfers i did with my Win 7 machine and Canopus ADVC100 were a mega ton easier. Easier does not mean better....just easier. I suppose had my 100 not have died i'd still be using it today.

I've been over in the Vegas forums asking about which render settings they suggested for my videos. That has turned into a long discussion about my rig, what my settings are and what 'they' feel i am doing wrong. Had me do a 'Mediainfo' analysis of my clips and Settings shown in Vegas. Now they are telling me i got some stuff missing in my captures.....and i feel like a fool again. I am a newbie swimming in a sea of experts....and i feel lost. This has me considering buying a Canopus again and just throwing my hands up in resignation.

All this feller wants to do is simply take his old family VHS's tapes and put them on the cloud....

If you care to see the vegas thread, its here:

https://www.vegascreativesoftware.in...133700/?page=1

I simply went looking for the right pull down menu selection to render my videos and now i am more confused than ever......

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denicio

I once tried the Huff compression and could never get it to work. Lagraith is the only one i could get to work that was not VideoDub native.

A member here recently did this: https://github.com/hofmand/video-codec-installers
Try that for Huffyuv install.
I still need to get with him, just not had time yet, next week.

Quote:

and i feel like a fool again. I am a newbie swimming in a sea of experts....and i feel lost.

Remember: Just because somebody knows (or seems to know) more than you do, doesn't mean they're an expert. They may be nothing more than a mouthy doofus. It takes more than writing stuff on the interwebs to be a true "expert" at something.

Quote:

This has me considering buying a Canopus again and just throwing my hands up in resignation.

If you're sharing videos, you really should take care to provide quality. TBCs, good captures. Otherwise, why bother sharing crummy quality? Everybody knows it's lousy. Low quality doesn't get any respect or appreciation.

Quote:

If you care to see the vegas thread, its here:
https://www.vegascreativesoftware.in...133700/?page=1

That thread is mostly posters fighting, not helping you whatsoever.

The advice to "just let the site do what it wants" was horrible.

Some of those guys known what's what, others wouldn't know their ass from their elbow. What a messy "help" thread.

You have AVI files. AVI container doesn't flag AR (aspect), doesn't flag interlacing (aka, "progressive" but isn't, actually TFF interlaced since non-DV from interlaced VHS). So those users who don't know these basics, should be entirely ignored.

I don't understand the obsession some of those folks have with metadata. Honestly, seems like a newbie that got hold of a new buzzword.

Quote:

I simply went looking for the right pull down menu selection to render my videos and now i am more confused than ever......

Vegas is like any other NLE.

Your captures are fine. (Well, the technicals. Not keen on content, even not seeing it, knowing that no line TBC is in use.)

Import to Vegas.
Of Vegas isn't smart, and I don't think it is, you'll have to specify TFF interlaced.

Before I go any further... do you even need to edit?

Double-encoding does lose quality, but I wonder, for the sake of simplicity, it'd be easier to capture, let Hybrid work QTGMC and cropping/AR magic, and output to high bitrate something (H.264, ProRes, etc). Maybe a lossless, I forget if Hybrid outputs to a lossless. The let Vegas chew on those. Then re-output.

Because NLEs are notoriously dumb programs. These days, only meant for HD files shot on cameras, camcorders or iPhones, not SD VHS conversions. It can do it, but may take extra manual steps.

[traal]

One step you're missing is checking and adjusting your luma levels using the histogram explained here. Also check your audio levels after capture, and if you see clipping, reduce audio levels and capture again.

[Denicio]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

Before I go any further... do you even need to edit?

Double-encoding does lose quality, but I wonder, for the sake of simplicity, it'd be easier to capture, let Hybrid work QTGMC and cropping/AR magic, and output to high bitrate something (H.264, ProRes, etc). Maybe a lossless, I forget if Hybrid outputs to a lossless. The let Vegas chew on those. Then re-output.

Lots packed into your reply. First a response to your question. Yes i need to edit the videos. Many of my personal videos are spells of boredom interrupted with excitement (kids baseball games). I'd rather edit down just the bits where my kids are playing. The problem is i set up the camera on a tripod and just let it roll the WHOLE game. So i will 100% need to edit.

Now to the rest of your reply quoted above when you mention QTGMC / AR Magic / ProRes and Hybrid, i feel like Michael Keaton in Mr Mom and just want to answer "220 or 224, what ever it takes". I have no idea what most of that reply even means. I have no idea how to respond to that ....other than....220 or 224.....

I suppose the only reason i was using Lagraith was because of the file size. Is it going to be better that i transfer into VD without compression, copy that to my NLE and edit & render them one at a time like that? If so, i'd need to know what settings in vegas will give me the best render and sensible file size.

Also, I cant recall why i am not using the capture utility in Vegas. I want to say i was talked out of it. Cant recall.

-- merged --

Okay, when i go to that page i get a list of about 7 or so options. Which one do i download for my Windows 7 machine? Pretty sure its Win 7 Pro.

[lordsmurf]

Rather than say "OMG, I don't understand, so much stuff!" you need to slowly step through the process. When something is new term, look it up. If you look it up, read, still makes no sense, then ask here.

So my question remains: What about encoding all the raw footage to H.264 QTGMC'd via Hybrid first, with good bitrate, then editing next. It may take more computer time (not "you time"), but may be overall easier longterm. Not something I'd suggest to most, but may be fine here.

I'll attach that new Huffyuv installer to this post, when I get a chance later today. Watch the post for the update.

[Denicio]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

Rather than say "OMG, I don't understand, so much stuff!" you need to slowly step through the process. When something is new term, look it up. If you look it up, read, still makes no sense, then ask here.

So my question remains: What about encoding all the raw footage to H.264 QTGMC'd via Hybrid first, with good bitrate, then editing next. It may take more computer time (not "you time"), but may be overall easier longterm. Not something I'd suggest to most, but may be fine here.

I'll attach that new Huffyuv installer to this post, when I get a chance later today. Watch the post for the update.

I look forward to the Huffyuv post from you. Hopefully its all i need.

-- merged --

LS, Are you still planning on posting the Huffyuv installer here?

[lordsmurf]

Look now.

[Denicio]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

Look now.

Many thanks!

Now, what do i do with these .7z files? They dont look like executable files. Do i just drop them in a folder somewhere?

[lordsmurf]

Unzip the 7z file, execute the MSI inside.

[Denicio]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

Unzip the 7z file, execute the MSI inside.

Thanks, i will give it a shot.

Never heard of 7z till just now.

[Denicio]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denicio

Thanks, i will give it a shot.

Never heard of 7z till just now.

LS,

Just to follow up i was still unable to get Huff to install. The installer goes about half way through and then just disappears. No "close" or "Finish" U.I.

When i open VD it does not show it.

They may be why i used Lagraith all this time. I was encouraged to try Grass Valley compression and over the weekend i gave it a try. To my eyes its doing a tiny bit better than Lagraith. FWIW.

[hofmand]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denicio

The installer goes about half way through and then just disappears. No "close" or "Finish" U.I.

The installer is pretty simple, there isn't much that can go wrong. When it succeeds, it just disappears. If it fails, I would expect an error, but I never tested that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denicio

When i open VD it does not show it.

Did you install the 32-bit or 64-bit HuffYUV (you can have both installed at the same time), and are you running the 32-bit or 64-bit VirtualDub?

[Denicio]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hofmand

The installer is pretty simple, there isn't much that can go wrong. When it succeeds, it just disappears. If it fails, I would expect an error, but I never tested that.



Did you install the 32-bit or 64-bit HuffYUV (you can have both installed at the same time), and are you running the 32-bit or 64-bit VirtualDub?

Well its installing without VD finding it, then. Which does not help me at all.

My Win 7, VD and Huff (attempted install) are all 64 bit.

[hofmand]

Maybe there's a dependency that I don't know about, so when I can find a Windows 7 CD or ISO, I will try installing it into a VM, then VirtualDub and HuffYUV.

[hofmand]

Ok so I installed Windows 7. I found that the installer wasn't requiring admin privileges as it was supposed to and so it won't install except under an admin account, but it won't tell you of the fact, instead it will silently fail to install. So I uploaded a new release to Github that tells you that you need to install with admin privileges.

Thanks for the feedback! Let me know if the new version works better for you.